Creativity Found: Finding Creativity Later in Life
Real-life stories of finding or returning to creativity in adulthood. I'm Claire, and I re-found my creativity after a time of almost crippling anxiety. Now I share the stories of other people who have found or re-found their creativity as adults, and hopefully inspire many more grown-ups to get creative. I chat with my guests about their childhood experiences of creativity and the arts, how they came to the creative practices they now love, the barriers they had to overcome to start their creative re-awakening, and how what they do now benefits their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing.
Want to be a guest on Creativity Found? Send me a message on PodMatch, here
Creativity Found: Finding Creativity Later in Life
Performance, Processing and Pepli with Sharon Pierre-Louis
•Claire Waite Brown•Episode 151
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'Actors are emotional athletes. Taking on all this emotion and processing it in a safe container is like an emotional shower for the soul.'
Actress and American Sign Language interpreter Sharon Pierre-Louis (Django Unchained, Switched at Birth) joins Claire to discuss her journey through the performing arts, from church plays in her Haitian-American upbringing to Hollywood sets and Deaf theater.
Sharon shares how a sixth-grade crush initially led her to the stage, how learning ASL to communicate with her brother opened new career pathways, and how she navigated systemic barriers as a Black actress in university and Los Angeles.
We explore the therapeutic power of acting as an emotional release, the challenges of balancing motherhood, self-tapes, and industry strikes, and what happened when Sharon realized her 'joy reservoir' was running on empty.
Sharon also introduces Pepli, a digital platform she created as a 'LinkedIn for creatives' to help artists collaborate, book work, and build genuine community without chasing social media algorithms.
Bridging Worlds with ASL: Discovering her deaf brother as a child, learning American Sign Language, and later combining her passions on camera in Switched at Birth and on stage with Deaf West Theater.
Breaking Casting Barriers: How Sharon proactively sought out auditions at FAMU (a historically Black university) while at Florida State to ensure she was never limited by industry stereotypes.
The 'Emotional Athlete' and The Joy Reservoir: Why acting acts as an emotional shower for processing complex feelings, and how stepping away during motherhood inspired Sharon to replenish her creative energy.
Pepli: A Digital Haven for Artists: The story behind Sharon's new app designed for performers, visual artists, and arts organizations to collaborate, find auditions, and share their artistic process without bottomless feeds or algorithm pressure.
Find Pepli in the App or Play Store, or find out more at pepliapp.com.
Being Haitian, the Haitian community, like the audience speaks back out at you while you're performing. And so I remember getting instant feedback. And they would laugh, they would talk back at what I was saying. And it was just like this beautiful engagement process. Being able to take on all this emotion and process it and be with it and not get lost in it or getting lost in it, but then knowing how to come out of it, all of that is so helpful. So I was not getting that. It's like a LinkedIn for artists, performers and creatives. Also for arts organizations, businesses and schools involved in the arts, for people to go in and be seen as well as find work, find collaboration, community, and that kind of stuff. All of a sudden, things are really coming up because I've put myself energetically in a space, and also there's excitement and joy in the possibility.
Claire Waite Brown:
Hi, I'm Claire. For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or refound their creativity as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits. This time, I'm chatting with Sharon Pierre-Louis. Hello, Sharon. How are you?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
I'm good, Claire, how are you?
Claire Waite Brown:
Very well, thank you. Start by telling me what your current creative outlet is.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Ah, right now, let's see. My current creative outlet. It's a couple things. One is I just had an audition yesterday, so I. Yeah, yeah, it's been a while. It's like my first audition in a while. And so diving into the sides or the lines, that was my most recent current creative thing that I did. And then also I have this platform for all artists, performers, and creatives that I've creatively been putting into as well, called Pepli.
Claire Waite Brown:
Brilliant. We will find out more about all of those. Did creative activities play a part in your life as a youngster at home in education?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Yes, it did. I started off playing the clarinet in elementary school, so that was my first thing, I think around third grade or so, like seven years old or so. And then from there I also was in the choir. You know, I grew up in church, and so that's what I did. I did a little bit of acting in church. And then I also went to an art school starting in seventh grade. So starting at 12 years old, through my senior year of high school until I graduated, I did new school theater and plays and. And all that fun stuff. And also opera crikey and what was
Claire Waite Brown:
it that you liked about the performing arts?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
It really kept me interested because it was my first time. Because the first time it happened was kind of by accident in a way. And I found myself on stage in sixth grade where, you know, I only did this after school thing. Cause I had a crush on a boy that my friend told me he was a part of theater club. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'm a part of theater club. And it turned out that Ms. Norman, who was our teacher at the time, she. I remember her telling us, we're going to perform for Black History Month. These poems. And so the first time I went on stage, I remember that I dressed in a way that I remember asking some kid, like, how do I look? He goes, you look tattered. And I was like, perfect. And I went on stage and felt the energy. I was nervous. And then afterwards, because it was sixth grade, all of the seventh and eighth graders, many of them would come up to me who've never spoken to me before, and they were like, you did such a good job. And oh, my gosh. And so I think that's when I was bitten by the bug. Because all of a sudden I was recognized in that way. And so I was like, oh, well, this is fun. That. And also performing at church, being Haitian, the Haitian community, like, the audience speaks back out at you while you're performing. And so I remember getting instant feedback. And they would laugh, they would talk back at what I was saying. And it was just like this beautiful engagement process. And the other thing that really drew me to it is because growing up, we weren't emotionally saying, like, I love you, and, like, lots of hugs in my family. And so it would happen when my parents would be, like, leaving to go out of the country. And so it's like, if I ever see you again, here's a hug I love you kind of a thing. And so I remember specifically with theater, connecting with my peers in a way where we had to be affected, where we had to be vulnerable, where we had to, like, see each other. And everybody was in on it in the story. And so you could be as silly as you wanted to. So I felt more free to explore and to fail and to win and to win as a team if we're, you know, in a play together. And so we all got to go on this journey together and have an audience come in and be witnessed and have them, you know, walk away with an experience that we can all talk about later. So that's what really Drew me to the arts, especially theater, was the fact that I found within my own self, emotionally, so much more depth and fun and a safe space to go to. I can scream and yell and do whatever. I think in many ways, that helped me to express myself in a way that I was like, oh, okay, I guess it is okay to express yourself and be vulnerable in this container that I got. So that's what drew me to it.
Claire Waite Brown:
Yeah, absolutely. I completely understand. So you said you went to an arts school. Did you continue in further education?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
I did. I went to Florida State University. I got my bachelor's of fine arts degree and a minor in communication disorders. So I went on to do acting there for the first time. I started taking real dance classes. I took ballet. I couldn't afford it when I was younger. My family couldn't. So I got grant money. I had scholarship and things. And so I. I used some of that money to then take some dance classes, and I took singing lessons and all that fun stuff while getting my degree in acting.
Claire Waite Brown:
Brilliant. When I speak with people. Well, not just performing artists, actually. Generally artists who go as far as keeping up with their art in their further education, in their university education, it can often then be very difficult afterwards to go and work in that field. Was that your experience, or did you have a nice, easy road into performing for a job?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
I wouldn't call it easy. However, I will say I felt prepared for that, for it getting difficult. And the reason why is because I went to an art school. However, there weren't that many black kids or kids who looked like me. We did have some black students, especially after ninth grade, but starting in seventh grade, there were plays that were put on. There were things where it felt like, can I audition for this period piece? You know? And I knew that one of the professors was very much into really being authentic to the time. And so I knew that I had to be able to do it all and stretch myself, number one. Number two, when I went to university, I remember the same thing happening again, where they had a period piece, and one of the professors did pull me into the office and tell me, are you gonna audition for this? Because we are required to audition for some productions. And he told me for that one, I didn't have to. And basically, because of the colour of my skin, like, what role could I play? And there is one role, but that particular role, it was come to the five and dime. Jimmy Dean. Jimmy Dean. And one of the roles, she has, like, five kids, they make fun of her, and they're like, well, if you're in that role, it just kind of changes the narrative in a way. So I was like, okay, I get it. But it's because of that that I went to famu. And so that's a historical black college. And so I went there and I auditioned for some of their stuff because I knew I wouldn't get any barriers because of that. So I knew to look outside of my school for opportunities. So by the time I graduated and ended up in Los Angeles, I was already in a mental state where I knew that, okay, well, I know how I look and how I'm perceived, and people might limit me for that, but I know I can do so much more. And on top of that, I know how to position myself to see opportunity, if that makes sense. I didn't limit my own self in my own mind. So I think that helped me a lot to not be as disappointed with so many rejections that I got, but at the same time be able to book some things because I was able to change some people's minds and rooms. But in school it was difficult enough, and I had to fight and be creative, and I just had to be my best to get roles and be seen that it translated into the real world in that way for me, too, because I already thought to myself, well, okay, I know there's going to be some challenges, but I know I can do it.
Claire Waite Brown:
You mentioned rejections, A lot of rejections. Presumably successes as well.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Though my very first year there, I think within six months, I booked a Toyota commercial. So that was very exciting. So I was like, yes, I can afford to be here. You know, like, there's some money. I've gotten to afford to be here because I was working as a server as well. And from there I think I went back to school to get my degree in American Sign Language, interpreting and transliterating. And so my very last year while I was in school, I ended up booking another show, a series, and it was a guest star, recurring role. I got an ABC Family show, and that was a big, big deal. And then from there, I've gone on to book other things. Django Unchained and other film, TV and commercials and plays in Los Angeles. So there were definitely some wins for sure.
Claire Waite Brown:
Good. You mentioned the American Sign Language. Why did you want to learn that?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
I actually have a sibling who is deaf and I did not know I had. So I'll go back a little bit. I first thought I was an only child, and then one day my parents told me, sharon, you do have a sister. And she's coming tomorrow. And I was like, what? From Haiti? And so I was like, oh, my gosh. I remember meeting my older sister. She's like five years older than me. I remember meeting her for the first time and holding onto my mom's skirt and thinking like, my mommy, oh my gosh.
Claire Waite Brown:
But. And then.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
So I remember that moment of meeting her. And then now fast forward a few years later, parents told me, you have brothers. And I was like, what? You know. So I went from like an only child to like the second child and then to like the fourth child because I had three older siblings. So they came when I was around six or seven years old and they said to me, one of them cannot speak. They use their hands to communicate. And I was like, what? I didn't even know that existed. And so when I met my brother for the first time, I ran around the house and just said, how do you sign this and how do you sign that? But his sign was more like Haitian Sign Language, influenced by French Sign Language and a little bit of asl American, you know. So it was like this fusion. So he himself had to learn American Sign Language as well. Also, English is my second language and crayons my first language. I think my brain was already exposed to languages. So I had Creole in the home, English, because I grew up in America. French was also around because the Creole is so close and this, that and the other, and then the now the sign language. And so for me, I was just fascinated. People can communicate with their hands. So later on I did learn how to sign, but it was more like, I can sign with him. Once I went to la, working as a server, there came a deaf. A group of deaf people, and I could communicate with them. But I was also a little rusty because it was like my second year in LA or whatever it was. And I was then inspired to go back to school to work as an interpreter while I'm pursuing acting and do the two combined.
Claire Waite Brown:
Were you able to like put your sign language skills to work in an acting situation?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Absolutely. It's really quite amazing because I was in my last year of school for interpreting and I ended up booking another job, switched at birth, and that's I think now on Netflix and Amazon prime, maybe one of those. And I played a character who signed. It's one of my recurring guest star roles that I had. And so the American Sign Language and the acting came together. And I also have worked with deaf actors and hard of hearing actors and have been in spaces within theater. I worked with deaf West Theater as well, who are incredible, Tony Award winning theater. And so I've been able to work with the artistic deaf community as an interpreter and as an actress. So they have come together beautifully. I was also working as an interpreter on camera for a series.
Claire Waite Brown:
Fascinating. Can you tell me when, why, how did the acting become not the thing that you were doing all the time?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Yeah, acting was slowing down a bit and I was still in la and then, you know, I was pregnant and so. And then during COVID by the time I had my baby, the world was like shut down. And in 2021 we moved to Florida and I was having my second baby and a lot of the jobs went more towards self tape and the job started dwindling down. And then from there I did book a show I think in 2022. We were shooting in North Carolina and the writers strike happened and then from there SAG Aftra, we had our strike as well and we were greenlit for three seasons. And all of a sudden after shooting the first season, they said we're going to put this on hold. And then after lots and lots of, you know, the strike just going on for way longer than we would have hoped for, they ended up shutting it down. The show never, it was never aired. So because of that and the fact that the strikes happened and AI also there's a lot of talk about that with jobs dwindling and the fact that now I'm a mom as well and I am doing self tapes from home and having to like do the lighting and do the directing and do the camera operator. Like I was doing all the things, it was a lot and I had to do it all within a specific time frame to have kids and it just all became a bit too much. But at the same time again, auditions were dwindling so I, I ended up not doing it as much. And so from there I just went without any acting. And I was kind of okay with it, to be honest, because I felt like it was time for a break because I wanted to focus more on family. And it's not as much fun to not go in person to see a casting director and audition. And also I'm in Florida, so I had like my sister helping me out if she could if she wasn't working. So my sister would, you know, she would say the lines and you know, and then all. And I'd be like, oh my God. Which is still good because I can focus. But at the same time I had to like then direct her to, you know, not be so, you know, it was this whole thing. So I went sometime without doing any of it. And just then, all of a sudden, I found myself just in motherhood and family life. But also, that's when an idea for Peply came for me to build this business for the arts and entertainment community for all of us to thrive. And so that became my focus.
Claire Waite Brown:
Good timing. Just coming on to the Pepli question. Well, the beginning of the Pepli question. So it was born out of, I believe, a realization on your part that your creative life was missing something. Tell me how that realization came to you and then what you did about it.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
It's funny because I feel like I was in a place where I. I take it for granted in a way. I had a lot of joy living in la. Of course, there were ups and downs, especially if, like, oh, I didn't book it, or whatever it was. But for the most part, I was pretty joyful, almost for no reason. And then I remember driving home one day after dropping off my kids in preschool and going, oh, my God, am I happy? Like, am I happy? And I was like, oh, my God. And it's almost like it was dwindling down so slowly. It's like I had a huge reservoir of joy that was dwindling that I didn't realize it until I was on E, you know, with the gas. And I was like, why is that? And so I went into a place in a space of like, why, you know, and of course there's some guilt there. Like, you know, I can't really complain. There's nothing really horrible happening in my life, but what I ended up finding out. And I do meditate, I do take the place in the space which is very important amongst the noise and being so busy with family life and things like that. I also work as an interpreter. I'm still working, and family life. So I remember meditating and creating that space for myself and going, oh, my God. Like, I used to take acting classes. And like I said in the beginning, when you're acting, you're doing a scene where you're yelling or you're angry or you're sad or you're crying. There are all these emotions that are happening. And I remember after acting class, it would be like 11 o' clock at night. Of course, we would almost always go over. And so it's like almost midnight, I'm getting home. And I had done a scene that day where I was crying or angry or yelling or whatever it was, or just feeling, you know, emotions. And I would feel so good driving home And I feel like the reason why is because in life there are things that are happening and sometimes we're so busy we don't really, really sit to process everything. And when it comes to acting, I feel like we are processing because your body doesn't know what's real, what's fake, what's imagined. And so in the processing in that scene, I am releasing and letting go and being witnessed in a safe space, a safe container. And so by the time I'm driving home, it's almost like I had therapy without getting lost in a story, because I got to put that story down and just know, okay, that's not real. But I still got to express within it. So I think I was like, oh my gosh, I need to get back into acting. It's more than just jobs. It really is. It is about the soul, the spirit, emotionally cleansing yourself. It's like an emotional shower, you know. And one thing one of my teachers used to say that I loved is that we're emotional athletes. That's who we are as actors. And so being able to take on all this emotion and process it and be with it and not get lost in it or getting lost in it, but then knowing how to come out of it, all of that is so helpful. So I was not getting that. And then also community, because I'm in Florida, so it's different. And the world is more global with the auditions being self tape as well. You don't have to be in New York and la. And so I thought, you know what? I had this idea before about having a building. This was like years ago, like 10 years ago. I was like, let's just have a building where actors can just come in and whatever they need. If you have an audition or whatever it might be, somebody's just there, they can put you on tape, they can like work on the audition with you. If you just want to play and do something, you can just do it. And that was my idea because I asked my friends way too much, my small group of friends, can you help put me on tape? I have an audition tomorrow, it's due. You know, all this stuff. So what about. What if we had a platform where people who needed it, we're all there together, you just show up, someone's there. And we're in a world now where we're more connected through technology. And so that's where Pepli came in. And I really thought it through as an actor, but also having to connect that to visual artists, to other different types of creative professionals, and Things to connect. Not just on a, I need a job or I want a job or I want to work, but also I want to be visible. But also I don't want to chase algorithms and likes, you know, things like that where it really matters. Community. And I dove into that world and it's been just an incredible journey that now I'm like, okay, I would like to offer that out to others to be able to connect. Because the arts is also about healing and connection. So anyway, I don't know if I completely answered your question there, but that's where Pepe came in.
Claire Waite Brown:
Absolutely. It's that community. It's like what you were talking about with the physical room, if there was to be such a thing as like a community center for artists. And now as you say, we're. We are better connected digitally, but sometimes missing that personally. But we do the best we can. So then Peply is an app. How does it actually work? Who can use it and what can users expect to find there?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Yes. So Peply right now is an app. We are also working on making it a web application, you know, being online as well. So that's something else we will be having. And so the way that people can use it, artists and performers and creatives, is that they can sign up and set up their profile. And so if anybody's looking for them, there they are. And also they can post any of their work or about them, what they have to offer their service, their products and have that be seen. And from there they can collaborate with other creatives. We have a feature specifically for that. So people aren't just like throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks, but, but seeing like, oh, these are the other creatives who want to collaborate, well, let me reach out to them and you can search for them by area or by discipline or whatever it might be. It's also a place where there's a job listing there as well. So job listings, auditions. So that is currently there. We're a very much new platform and we're still growing. That basically is the vision of what it is. So it's like a LinkedIn for artists, performers and creatives, also for arts organizations, businesses and schools involved in the arts. And it's just everything, arts and entertainment. So for people to go in and be seen as well as find work, find collaboration, community and that kind of stuff.
Claire Waite Brown:
And there is a kind of, I'm going to use the term social media aspect to it with a feed, but you mentioned not chasing algorithms. How does that social media style feed
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Work the way that it works right now versus because right now we're redesigning some parts of it because we've gotten some feedback from some artists. Right now it's just whatever you post, it's chronologically there, so it's not something where, like, every time you scroll down, the whole thing changes, and then it's just bottomless, you know, it's not that type of place. The other thing, too is with the redesign, what's happening is that people are going to be able to curate it exactly to what they want to see on their feeds. So if they just want to see job listings or auditions or just the visual artist in a specific discipline, or just the performing arts in a specific way, then they'll be able to do that within their feed. So right now, it's almost like what we have is like an mvp where people can just go into this huge space and they're all there, and then what's going to open up are doors within that space where they can more specifically go where they feel more aligned with their goals.
Claire Waite Brown:
And do you think it could be useful for a bit of accountability? So if you're working on something or you want to work something, but you're getting a bit stuck or you're thinking, I will do this because I want the people over at Pepli to see, and I want to see what anybody thinks, or just generally I want to share what I'm doing with no consequence whatsoever. You know, I just want to put this out there to say I've done it. Do you think that is a useful part of it?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Absolutely. That's also a big point of it, because a lot of what we do is process. And then finally when it's like, oh, okay, we feel like we're in a place where we want to be witnessed. I mean, it always continues to evolve, but when that place and space comes, you're able to do that. I feel like sometimes the social medias that we know of, it's almost like you have to be on all the time and performing and almost, you know, and then there's like, critique coming in from everywhere. But Pepli is a place where it's specifically for people within the arts and entertainment space. And so you can have, even when you post that, it's only peers who are able to see what it is that you're putting out there, and you're able to have that process. And then there's also another place for audience members and fans or patrons of the arts, where if you want to have an audience or if you want to know from audience how they're perceiving what it is that you're putting out there, you can get that if you'd like. So you have the option. You're not feeling forced to go, I'm just on another social media, because who really wants another social media? But so what it really is about is saying, okay, I want to just use this as a booking site. That's it. I'm just here as a booking site. I have an agent, I have a manager. So if you want to reach out to me, reach out to them, like, literally can use the platform for that. Or. And. Or you can say, I want to get a little social as well, and I want to network, or I want to, like, give in my own way to other artists who are asking for some feedback. So that is what people are able to do on there.
Claire Waite Brown:
Brilliant. Thank you so much. We talked a bit, and you mentioned about doing an audition, and I wonder if this is partly connected. So Pepli for you has been a creative experience, putting it together. And do you think you have experienced benefits in your wider life that you can contribute to this creative activity?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Yes, because now I'm finding myself more. More in places and spaces where artists are. And so I am showing up in those spaces. I'm listening more, you know, more deeply. Sometimes we can get so involved in our own art, but again, to be in relationship within, that has helped the other thing too. I do believe, like, so much is energy. What we put out is what we get back type of thing. And so for me to open myself up into this space, not go, oh, there's not as much going on out there, I go, well, let me create something. In creating something, I find that all of a sudden, people have reached out to me as well. For example, there's a kid trying to get into a middle School of the Arts theater program. And so I was like, of course I'll help you out with the auditions. And so as I'm coaching this student, this audition comes to me, and also this podcast is coming up as well. And so I just feel like all of a sudden things are really coming up because I've put myself energetically in a space, and therefore things are coming versus me just keeping it in my head. And also, there's more excitement and joy in the possibility because again, it's a process. So in the process of creating, it's like this joyful, like, ooh, you know, soul expression, I'll say. That is then reflected in the environment that's exciting.
Claire Waite Brown:
Yeah, really good. And now, what advice could you give would you give to others looking to reignite a creative passion?
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
One thing I would say is to definitely sit down with yourself in silence, in basically nothingness and just being and just seeing what comes up and just taking action. Doing one thing, even one small thing, just leads to another and another and another. Almost like how I got into Pepli and now there's a whole product there. And of course, I would also say, join Peply, you know, because to be able to just go on to an app that is like LinkedIn for artists and sign up for it, all of a sudden you're saying, okay, it's there, it's a reminder, and you can post something there that you're like, oh, this is what I'm working on. Or you can find somebody else to connect with and see about collaboration or whatever it might be, or just, you know, allow yourself to be inspired.
Claire Waite Brown:
You're describing exactly what you just described for yourself. Putting yourself in that position in that energetic space that's going to make the next thing happen. Super. Tell me how people can find Pepli, presumably on an App Store and generally how people can connect with you.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Pepli can be found in the App Store and Pepll is P E P L I, P as in Peter. So you can be found in the App Store as well as the Google Play Store. And also if somebody's like, I need more information on this or I want to, you know, see more about it, they can go to the website. So it's www.peplyapp.com. and if they're looking for Pepli on social media, they can find it there. Instagram, it's Epply app. It's also on Facebook as well. There's a Pepli page that's there. And if you want to follow me on Instagram, it's @shape. Lou S H A P as in Peter I E L O U. So you can find me on Instagram there, which then can take you to Pepli as well.
Claire Waite Brown:
Thank you so much for chatting with me today. I've had a brilliant conversation and it's been so good to learn more about what you've been creating.
Sharon Pierre-Louis:
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting and I love this podcast because it, again, reminds people. Oh, yeah, that's right. There's this thing that I have in me that wants to be expressed that I can't ignore, you know, and I think it's good for your health in all ways, so it's important. So thank you for having me. It's been. It's been wonderful.
Claire Waite Brown:
You're very welcome. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, perhaps you'd like to financially contribute to future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound There's a link in the show Notes if you are listening on a Value for value enabled app such as Fountain, TrueFans or Podcast Guru, feel free to send a few sats my way. And if you have no idea of what I'm talking about, you can find out more by listening to my six missed a podcast called Podcasting 2.0 in Practice.
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