Creativity Found: Finding Creativity Later in Life
Real-life stories of finding or returning to creativity in adulthood. I'm Claire, and I re-found my creativity after a time of almost crippling anxiety. Now I share the stories of other people who have found or re-found their creativity as adults, and hopefully inspire many more grown-ups to get creative. I chat with my guests about their childhood experiences of creativity and the arts, how they came to the creative practices they now love, the barriers they had to overcome to start their creative re-awakening, and how what they do now benefits their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing.
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Creativity Found: Finding Creativity Later in Life
From "What If?" to "Why Not?" with Kathy Kyle
•Claire Waite Brown•Episode 138
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From statistics to sustainability via collaboration, community and creativity.
Kathy Kyle is an illustrator and entrepreneur who successfully pivoted from a 25-year career in marketing and statistics to launching her own sustainable art business.
In this episode Kathy shares her journey of finding her creative voice later in life and the courage it took to prioritize joy and beauty over utilitarianism.
Throughout our conversation, we explore:
The intersection of data and art in effective communication.
How a background in statistics and sociology informed Kathy’s approach to community building.
The personal and professional catalysts for her move from the US to the UK.
Overcoming stress-related health challenges by returning to a childhood passion for painting.
The creation of her brand, featuring hand-painted silk scarves and sustainably sourced products.
The importance of collaboration and supporting women-owned independent businesses.
Kathy offers a professional perspective on why it is never too late to "bet on yourself" and how embracing creativity can lead to a more fulfilling and relaxed lifestyle.
I don't want to look back at my life and think I'm going to continue on doing things that I don't want to do because I'm good at them or because people expect me to do them. I think I've been doing that for a long time. I'm creating things because I want to make them beautiful. I want to put beauty and joy and creativity out in the world. And there is very little utilitarianism to that. But I think that there is good in that and there's value in that. That's important. The way I am as a person is a lot more chilled and relaxed, and I'm much happier. I think, again, it's on me. It's how I respond to what's happening. You know, I still have to freelance. I still have to do other things. It's just the core of my work is more fulfilling and I believe in what I'm doing.
Claire Waite Brown:
Hi, I'm Claire. For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or refound their creativity as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits and how their creative lives enrich their practical, necessary, everyday lives. This time, I'm chatting with Kathy Kyle. Hi, Kathy. How are you?
Kathy Kyle:
I'm great, Claire. Thank you so much for having me.
Claire Waite Brown:
You're very, very welcome. Start by telling me what your current creative outlet is.
Kathy Kyle:
I'm illustrating and I'm hand painting artwork that I turn into sustainably made silk scarves. And also I'm. I'm making cards as well. And I didn't really mean to, but I've sort of fell into it. Oh, brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown:
Well, we'll find out more about falling into things as we go along. When you were younger, did creative activities play a part in your life? Were they encouraged at home or in education?
Kathy Kyle:
Yes. So I've been an artist my whole life. I've always been a painter and drawn things and my friends would ask me to draw for them. And so I would. And even, you know, as a young person, I always tend to. I would illustrate the yearbooks in school, and then when I went to university, I would draw. But I didn't really study it. I just did it for enjoyment.
Claire Waite Brown:
What educational path led you to college? What were you going to be studying at college? And did you have a vision for life as a grown up?
Kathy Kyle:
Sure. So I went to school on a scholarship, and I was one of the first people in my family to go to university. And I studied sociology with an emphasis in statistics. You know, it was kind of like a utilitarian approach towards things. It was like, you're going to go to school, you have to get an education. And, you know, with an education, your future's limitless kind of thing. It was, you know, I was a daughter of immigrants, and so it was a really important thing to get an education, which I really value, and I'm glad I did. You know, our outcomes are always better when we have an education. So it was really important for me to go to school. But art didn't really play a factor in that. I don't think it was really valued. A lot of people just don't really put a monetary value on art. But it's so important for us, isn't it, in terms of our wellness? It's just so important. So for me in school, it was, how can you get a job? How can you find value in that? And so I went to school and I studied statistics, essentially methods. I went to a liberal arts school in San Diego, San Diego State. It was fantastic. And I'm really lucky that I took humanities courses. It was a requirement. And so I took film courses. And that's kind of where I was led down this path of finding. Finding my artistic voice. I think I worked in marketing at the university and I created cards. I actually did create cards from a young age, I was probably 18, and I sold them on the steps of the bookshop. It was fantastic. And I've always had this side hustle, always had this entrepreneurial side. So, yeah, that's how I do it.
Claire Waite Brown:
Yeah. Why statistics?
Kathy Kyle:
I really like to know how people work. It was really interesting to me to understand. And I'm also a marketer, so I really like to understand and get down to the root of things. I like to understand analytics. I like to understand how things work. Looking at numbers and data and understanding how things operate. I actually really use that degree. I have a master's in it, too. I did it twice. So I went back for more. And I actually went to work both in San Diego and then I moved to Washington, D.C. i would fly back and forth from Washington D.C. and back and finish my master's in San Diego. It was difficult, but I was just dedicated to finishing and I actually wrote my master's. I did a quantitative and qualitative study about where I was working in the government. So for me, just understanding the root of the matter, understanding how people operate and work and just understanding people. I really like to understand how people operate and work and the data points, then just trying to extract insight from that and value from that. Because at the root of everything for me, as people, and how we can bring people together around making better decisions and understanding how to build communities around what's important to them and moving people to act around the things that matter the most to them. And so for me, that's just how we can solve different social problems and addressing the needs that we have as humans. On every project I've ever worked on, any campaign I've ever worked on, I've always infused art and statistics and understanding messaging and bringing all of that together. And that's, I think, why I've had such an interesting career and an interesting life, is because I listen to people, I write a plan, I write a strategy, and then I say, okay, how can we understand how this all works together so that we can better communicate with them, to move them to act, to make their lives better, to. To move them to do something that matters to them and to make things more beautiful and to move them to act on something that's important. So whether it's about climate change or public health or transportation, you can take a really dull thing, but it might matter to somebody and make it work for them or make someone's life better. And that's what I've been doing for the past 25 years. I think that you can take art and it's a way of communicating with people. I think it's just so beautiful. And what I wanted to do in my whole career was to take art and transform that into communicating. So when I worked in the government in the States, I would think, God, some of this information is pretty dull. So how can we communicate this more effectively with all of these people? So I worked at the National Science Foundation. I was responsible for, like, the national communication strategy. And so it was like, I don't want to just push out information. I want to talk to people, understand what their problems are, and then make it more palatable, you know, so they'll. They'll want to share it so they can be like the brand ambassador. And so they asked me, like, what kind of training do you want? And I said, I want to learn Adobe Creative Suite. And so I would talk to them, understand this is the statistics, understand what their issues were, and then take that information and then process it in the way I would process it, and then, like, push it back out in a creative way, that was my differentiator. That's how I approached things. And I think throughout my career I didn't really realize that I was doing it, but I was doing it.
Claire Waite Brown:
Yeah, you've already mentioned San Diego and Washington and now you live in the uk. Why and how did that move happen?
Kathy Kyle:
So I moved to the UK because I fell in love and I fell in love with an amazing person and decided that it was time to. To try something different. I had such an amazing career in life in the US and wanted to try something new. I have a history of the uk, I have my best friends from here and I visited so many times to see her. And I've worked globally and I've lived in five countries, so I have an international background. But I moved here and it was just fantastic starting over and having the opportunity to do this. But when I first came over, I ended up volunteering and getting to know local businesses and community partners and working with Rotary and just getting to know the community and it was just really fantastic and it just really became home for me. I've been here for 14 years now and I worked with local governments and I've been a bid manager, business improvement district manager. And it's been just such an incredible experience living here.
Claire Waite Brown:
So was living here a part of the process of being able to make more space for your artistic creations to take center stage? Was that a part of it? You know, what can you tell me about how your life now is a lot more on the artist than in the. The business side of things?
Kathy Kyle:
It's taken me about 25 years to stop saying what if? And to start saying why not? And I think a lot of that has to do with having the life experience that I've had. I have launched companies, I've brought companies to market. I've launched so many different things, I've given myself the permission to pivot. And that takes a lot of. Gosh, I don't know what it takes. I think it takes a bit of crazy and a bit of gumption and a bit of. It takes a lot of things. And I'm still working out why I did it, but I'm glad I did. I did a talk recently with people like us at Samsung and it was sort of life changing going up there in front of all of these people and saying, hi, I'm Kathy and I'm a perfectionist. And I've decided to take this leap into doing something I've always wanted to do. And the reason why I've done it is because I have decided to be brave. And I'm not sure if it's because I made a move across the ocean or because I'm turning 50 next year or because I lost my best friend during COVID or because I'm ready to do it now. I'm still trying to figure out why I did it. All of the above, yes. And I think it's just one of those things where I'm just really glad I did it. It's very difficult to do these things. I mean, I have an amazing consultancy, an award winning consultancy, and a lot of people look at me and think, why are you doing this? Because you're not making as much money as you did and you could be just still doing it. But you know, I still have to freelance and I still have clients that I serve. Because you can't just go and be an artist and expect everything to, to fall into your lap. It takes a lot of work. I launched my art business in April and I have had a lot of success so far. I've been to Top Drawer, I've picked up new stockists, I've been to London Fashion Week, I've got workshops coming up. I'm doing a lot of hustle, but it's hard. It is really difficult. I did the Great British Pitch last week, so I pitched International Buyers. I've got the support of Small Business Britain and Buy Women Built. And it's, it's superb. It's incredible. I have the support of my friends and family and colleagues and it's amazing. It's amazing. But it's a lot of work and it's really difficult. So I'm not going to sugarcoat it and say this is totally perfect because it's very challenging, but it is the most rewarding thing I've done. I've always wanted to do it and I've never been as fulfilled or as happy as I am now. I mean, I have a whole list of things I need to do today and I'm thrilled that I get to do them. But I've stopped measuring myself by those KPIs I used to measure myself by. And it feels really good. It does.
Claire Waite Brown:
Tell me about the other person then, the one that gets to do the drawing and the painting. But first of all, when you started to do more of this and before you came up with putting it on fabric, and you can explain to me about why you've done that, how did you know what you wanted to do? Or did you just pick up a paintbrush? How do your actual creative Things come out and get there on the page or on the fabric.
Kathy Kyle:
A few years ago, I had lost my. My dear friend. And it's not my loss, it's hers, really. And it's. I think about it a lot, how I don't want to look back at my life and think I'm going to continue on doing things that I don't want to do because I'm good at them or because people expect me to do them. I think I've been doing that for a long time. You know, you get to a certain point in your life and you think, am I halfway through? Am I. How much time do I have left? How many summers do I have left with my family?
Claire Waite Brown:
That kind of thing.
Kathy Kyle:
It's very morbid, but. Sorry. You just think that way. I think that way sometimes. You know, I try not to, but I do. And 20, 24, I was, you know, I've really successful business, great team, great everything. And I. I actually got sick, you know, went to the hospital and didn't know what was happening and got really skinny and everyone was not sure what was happening and did six months of tests. And it turns out it was just stress. Not just is a really bad word, but it was stress. And so I decided then that I was going to make a change in what I was doing. And I still do the same thing. I just don't do it the same way. And so I took the summer off and I just painted. And I didn't really know what I was going to do. I knew I was going to offer creative services in some way, but I didn't know how. And so I had pan painted some gift wrap for my daughters. I have twin girls and a boy. At one point I had like two on a two. It was just crazy. But I have an amazing partner. It's great. And so I hand painted their gift wrap. And my friend said to me, oh, I'd wear that on my clothes. That's incredible. And I said. And then I painted a painting for my girlfriend. And she said, oh, this is beautiful. It'd be great on silk. And I just thought about, like, how it was on the wall. And then my. My business partner, I have another business, he said, God, it's like, you know, it's like art. You could just put on your body. And I just thought. And I just. It all kind of percolated. I didn't put any pressure on myself. I don't think you should put any pressure on yourself. And I think it's a symptom of My perimenopause too, where you just don't care about what anyone thinks of you. And I just thought I would love to wear that on my body. So I did a ton of research. I worked in sustainability for a really long time and I just thought about if I'm going to do anything, I'm not going to do it fast, I'm going to do it slow and I'm going to do it sustainably and I'm not going to prostitute my principles. I'm going to live my values. And I did a lot of research around silk. I found a provider that I hand paint it and then they would print it sustainably onto silk. And I wanted to find someone who could hand finish it. No machine, just all hand finished. And that's what I did. And I just did a lot of testing, a lot of testing. I still have all the fabric. I'm going to sew something. I decided to learn how to sew as well. And yeah, that's how it all started. I wanted to create silk that you could take off the wall and put on your body. And I engaged services of a designer to help me create a video. And it's like this little woman walking across the walking and she takes my artwork off the wall and puts it on the body. And that's the idea. And so it's evolved from there. I just hand painted it and then it turned into a scarf. I ended up launching my brand in a gallery in Soho. My husband helped me with everything, every little bit. And I had some help from friends as well who were just amazing. My business partner trained in from Amsterdam and helped me. My friend from university lives here and he helped me as well. They're great. And then I decided to hand paint clothes as well because I had a stain on my, my shirt that I love so much and I didn't want to get rid of it. And so I hand painted my, my clothes with water based inks and I heat sealed it. And then people just said can you hand paint my clothes or can you source cotton? I said, well I've got to make sure it's responsibly sourced. And I'd go to the charity shop and find clothes because I, I don't buy anything new. Everything is like secondhand or from an antique shop. And then I went to Top Drawer which is a retail show and I took all of these cards that I had made and I made postcards for my launch. I actually forgot to bring them to my launch. I was going to give everyone a card. And so I just took the cards that I forgot to bring because there was all these little yellow boxes all look the same. This is true. This is my menopause moment. I forgot these boxes. And so I just took all the cards and I made a. I made an outfit out of them. I like handmade the bustier, and I made everything and it went down into a skirt that I sewed. And so I said, I make these cards that match the scarves. I had a stockist say, oh, I'll take some of your cards. I said, okay, great. And then I. I misheard her and ended up having to hand paint like 500 cards for her, which is like, amazing because her shop is incredible and she's incredible. So that's why I have so many. You can't see them now because I've moved them, but I have so many boxes of cards. So I'm actually, I've just invested in a letter press. So I'm going to let it press my cards and then hand paint the letterpress because it's just too much time to hand paint every single card sometimes again, as a consultant, I'm a problem solver. And so you sort of find solutions to problems. So the cards were a solution to a problem. The T shirts were a solution to a problem.
Claire Waite Brown:
In the next segment, Kathy shows me and talks about some of the icons she uses on her scarves and cards. I've put a short video together so you can see these too. And this can be found by clicking on the video camera icon if you're listening in TrueFans or over at the creativity found podcast YouTube page.
Kathy Kyle:
So every scarf has icons. So I have cards that have these books. My sunglasses. I don't do a lot of shoes, but these are my boots. I did my P stuffs and this is like the metro sign. And then I do flowers. The flowers are. Obviously have flowers everywhere in my garden, but they're also my feminist statement around, you know, you pluck one, another one rises up. But yeah. So everything I do, the. The inspiration is always. It's kind of almost like a response to something. Like I've. I've come up with it because someone has said to me, oh, can you do this for me? Or can you address this issue? And it's been really great. I absolutely love it. When I was working in consulting, it was, can you make this look pretty? And I'd say, well, I can communicate that idea effectively for you so that we can move people take action on this issue that matters. Most of them but now I'm creating things because I want to make them beautiful. I want to put beauty and joy and creativity out in the world. And I believe that with my scarves, with my clothing, with my art, you know, it's, it's storytelling, it's about. I do believe that everyone is unique and I do believe that everyone deserves to have things that makes them happy, puts some joy out in the world. And there is very little utilitarianism to that. But I think that there is good in that and there's value in that. That's important.
Claire Waite Brown:
Yeah, that's wonderful for everybody. How about you? So you've mentioned that, you know, life is still busy and stressful, but you feel happier in that than maybe in the past. Are there other ways that embracing this creative side has benefited the quality of your life in other areas?
Kathy Kyle:
A hundred percent. I'm so much happier and definitely my well being has improved, Changing the way I work. I've become just a happier person. My wellness has improved. I'm still busy. I find it to be interesting when people that I work with, I'm a senior advisor on a, for a tech company and people will say to me, you must have more time with your family. I just sort of laugh and I say, I don't have more time with my family. But the time that I do spend with my family is of a better quality. If I'm working on my artwork, the kids will sit down with me to start painting or drawing. They love it. Whereas before, if I was working on something for a client, I think that they would be less interested in sitting with me. You know, I will have paint everywhere and I'll have pens. And I have seen a change in my children, for sure. They are so much more creative. They are far more talented than I am. That's for sure. For sure. Instead of asking for different types of presents, they will ask for notebooks and pens and paper, which is wonderful. In which I will absolutely buy for them. We buy for them. The way I am as a person is a lot more chilled and relaxed and I'm much happier, I think. But that's again, that's on me. It's how I respond to what's happening. I definitely take responsibility for that as a person. I can't tell you how many people, after my people like us talk, came to me and just said, I wish I could do that. I wish I could let go and just do whatever it is that I want to do. And I'm like, I'm not just doing whatever it is I want to do. I'm just embracing a side of me that I didn't totally embrace before. It's still hard work. You know, I still have to freelance, I still have to do other things. It's just the core of my work is more fulfilling and I believe in what I'm doing. I believe that it adds value and I believe that I, I can do it. And I'm betting on myself. If you want to buy a product from someone else, go ahead, please do. This is mine. And if it aligns with your values, great. And if it doesn't, then there are so many other people out there whose products might make sure it's a small business, make sure it's independently owned. My local, yeah. Women owned businesses get 3% of funding in this country. You know, if we invested in women owned businesses, we would add like so much more money to this economy. We vote with our, our pounds, we vote with our dollars. And it's just for me. I've just decided that I'm going to bet on, on myself and it feels good.
Claire Waite Brown:
Brilliant. Thank you for that. I wanted to say that I'm not surprised. Having done this show for nigh on five years now, the amount of people that come up to you at that talk and say, I wish I had that, I wish I could do that. And that's what, once again, your contribution to this episode is going to help more people to hear that. And those people who are thinking, I want to do this, we keep telling the stories of people who are doing it and you can do it too. So thank you for being able to tell that story.
Kathy Kyle:
I tell you what, there are so many resources available to small businesses and I really hope that people avail themselves of it. And I really hope that as we collaborate with each other and learn from each other and support each other, we understand that there's so much opportunity out there. And if we work together and not compete with each other, we'll realize that we're stronger together and hopefully we can help our economy by collaboration. I found that the key to my success has always been collaboration, community and creativity. Bringing those three things together, I've been able to be successful. I've had so much support from other female owned businesses and I found that just having that support has been just incredible and so helpful.
Claire Waite Brown:
Perfect. How can people connect with you?
Kathy Kyle:
Kathy, you can find me at kathykyle.com and if you're on Instagram, you can find me at kathykyle Underscore Studio. And I'm here and listening and ready to connect and create some artwork for you or to help you. I'm here to support other businesses or to support you. If you're looking for art, illustration, or communication support, let me know.
Claire Waite Brown:
Fabulous. Thank you so much. It's been a brilliant chat.
Kathy Kyle:
Thank you so much. It's been really nice talking to you.
Claire Waite Brown:
I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, perhaps you like to financially contribute to Future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound There's a link in the show Notes. If you are listening on a Value for value enabled app such as Fountain, TrueFans or Podcast Guru, feel free to send a few sats my way. And if you have no idea of what I'm talking about, you can find out more by listening to my sister podcast called Podcasting 2.0 In Practice.
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