Steve Goldberg: Purpose, Piano and the Goosebump Compass

Creativity as a necessity in the age of AI. 

Steve Goldberg is a passionate advocate for the role of creativity in a rapidly changing world, and in this episode he shares his conviction that finding meaning and purpose beyond professional life will become increasingly vital as artificial intelligence reshapes the future of work. 

Steve, a former tenured professor and global consultant, shares his philosophy of "following my nose" and staying "awake to possibilities," which has led him down some truly "magical and unexpected paths".

In this episode, we explore:

• The Power of Synchronicity: How a spontaneous bicycle ride led Steve to a Harvard scholarship, and how an overbooked flight resulted in him meeting Nelson Mandela the day after his release from prison.
• The Late Bloom: Steve’s journey to becoming a composer of "healing piano for a noisy world", despite being convinced for decades that he "did not have a creative bone in my body". He didn't start playing the piano until he was 50 years old.
• The Goosebump Compass: Steve reveals his unique method of improvisation and composition – working without reading music and instead relying on his "goosebump compass" to guide the emotional impact and structure of his work.
• Leaving Stability for Opportunity: Why Steve resigned from a tenured college position at age 28 to pursue a consulting job that took him "literally around the world" for four decades.
• Creativity as a Necessity, Not a Luxury: Steve argues that with artificial intelligence accelerating job changes and disappearances, creative expression and finding purpose outside of professional life will become vital for society.
• Languishing or Blossoming: Discussing the concept behind Steve’s book, which encourages people to choose a continuous "blossoming" process over a fixed mindset, particularly in the face of life's challenges.

Find Steve's music and book here.

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• Suzanne Noble – dirty blues and Dorothy Fields

Buy arts and crafts techniques books, plus books by some of my podcast guests, from the Creativity Found bookshop 

Help me to keep making this podcast at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound

Transcript

Steve Goldberg: 0:33

I was fascinated by the question then, this was 50 years ago, of how people would spend their time if they were working less. Shakes my hand, looks me in the eyes and said, I heard about you. And I said, I heard about you too, Mr. Mandela, welcome home. I was so stunned by where that took me and where music can take us. And I just said, boy, one day I would love to be able to make the time and energy and try to learn just a tiny piece of what he can do so easily.

Claire Waite Brown: 1:18

Hi, I'm Claire. For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or refound their creativity as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits and how their creative lives in which they're practical, necessary, every day lives. This time I'm chatting with Steve Goldberg. Steve, how are you?

Steve Goldberg: 1:57

I'm doing great. Early morning here in Western Canada.

Claire Waite Brown: 2:01

That is the beauty of our time differences.

Steve Goldberg: 2:03

It is.

Claire Waite Brown: 2:05

Start by telling me what your current creative outlet is, please.

Steve Goldberg: 2:10

Sure. First off, I want to say how much I appreciate the work you're doing, Claire. I think creativity found and organizations like it are going to become even more important in the years ahead. Why do I say that? I think a lot about creativity in the future of work these days, and particularly the interface with artificial intelligence. And if we're correct about the enormous numbers of jobs, changes and jobs that may disappear and professions that may disappear, more people will be looking for meaning and purpose and creative expression beyond their professional lives. So I really believe that your work is going to be even more important in the months and the years ahead. So I just want to kind of put that out as an appreciation and a deep respect for the work that is so vital, I think for our society these days, and even more so as the meaning of work is going to have less importance and the meaning in one's life is going to have more importance.

Claire Waite Brown: 3:23

Very nicely worded there and thank you.

Steve Goldberg: 3:27

My pleasure. So to answer your question, personally, my main creative pursuits these days are my piano. Composing, healing piano for a noisy world is my little mantra. I wrote a book recently that we maybe have a chance to chat about a little bit and sharing reflections across generations on social media. I really feel that these days young people are especially in need of knowing that others are there and in support of the challenges that they face in life. And as a 74 year young guy I feel a great responsibility to the condition in which we're leaving our world for the younger generations. And I think we have not done a great job of that. So I think there's little bits and pieces that we can do in our life to help support others, especially young folks, as models and mentors, that there is hope, there is possibility, and helping them find their creative expression. So I love being on such like TikTok and YouTube, for example, where I'm engaging with musicians and creatives and we go back and forth and we've done a couple little collaborations, we've talked about support, they've helped me figure out social media and I've made suggestions about how to track and think about things that are important to them. So it's been a wonderful intergenerational intersection.

Claire Waite Brown: 5:01

Speaking of the younger generations, how was your experience of creativity at school at home when you were younger? Were activities encouraged? Were there things you enjoyed?

Steve Goldberg: 5:14

It just amazes me that I'm on having a conversation about creativity with somebody who's an expert in creativity. Why? Because I was convinced at a young age that I did not have a creative bone in my body. So my best grades in school were in physical education and I really struggled in art classes. And I know you probably hear this a lot, that the school system reinforced the idea that creativity was something for other people. And so it took me decades to unlearn that and to realize we're all creative just in different ways.

Claire Waite Brown: 5:53

So then through schooling, were you led in a direction for what you were going to do after school or did you have your own ideas about what you wanted to do as a grown up?

Steve Goldberg: 6:05

If it's okay, let me focus back a bit to my studies in school because that kind of led to where I went. You know, I'm kind of a follow my nose kind of person. I never really had a clear goal, clear purpose. They're just pieces of things that attract me and I, I try them out. I am deliriously curious. I love learning new things and I pay attention to what's going on in the world and where might I be able to find my way. So my studies back when I was a teenager and thinking about life and entering school was a focus on the time I grew up. And I'm not sure if this is similar in the uk, but the Flintstones and the Jetsons were two cartoonish shows that were on TV about the future and where our future was going. And people were talking about a 30 hour workweek. So I decided I wanted to study urban planning and later, adult development. Because I was fascinated by the question then, this was 50 years ago, of how people would spend their time if they were working less.

Claire Waite Brown: 7:23

Wow.

Steve Goldberg: 7:24

So looking back, I guess I was just about 50 years ahead of where things seem to be unfolding now.

Claire Waite Brown: 7:33

Isn't that interesting?

Steve Goldberg: 7:35

Yeah. So I've always believed that planning can take you so far. And for me, it's just as important to stay awake to possibilities. So I've embraced the practice, as I've mentioned, of following my nose philosophy, and it served me well. So synchronicity has been a huge part of that journey. It's showing up again and again, leading me down some pretty magical and unexpected paths.

Claire Waite Brown: 8:02

Well, you can't leave it at that. You have to tell me some of these magical, unexpected paths. Give us some examples.

Steve Goldberg: 8:10

Okay. So I. I finished university and I got on a bicycle and I traveled from New York State to Massachusetts. And while doing that, I had a chance to go to Cambridge, Massachusetts. And I said, oh my goodness, that's where Harvard is. I want to go and take a look at Harvard. So I roll my bike in to Harvard Yard, they call it Habit Yard in Boston Speaks. And I rolled in and there was a demonstration going on for children's rights. And I said, oh, let me join that. That sounds cool. So I just kind of went there and I started chatting up somebody and in conversation, this gentleman mentioned, you know, I have a feeling you might be perfect for a job that we have. I wound up applying and getting this job and it resulted in getting a scholarship to study my master's degree at Harvard. Wow. So this went from taking a bicycle ride with nothing in mind other than to explore and stay open and be curious. And it led to what's become a four decade career. Helping leaders and individuals be the best they can be. Personal and professional development work. The other example is I got to meet Nelson Mandela the day after he was released from prison. I was working in Africa and I was supposed to leave on a flight that got overbooked and I could have pushed my way into the flight and I just said, no, it's okay, I'll just go back. I go back to this hotel that I was staying at and asked, is there any way you can put me up? And they said, well, we just had one cancellation just now. Yes, you can stay. And then all of a sudden, I hear that Nelson Mandela is arriving to the hotel for his first talk after release from prison. So Winnie Mandela and Nelson Mandela walk into the hotel where I was staying and I watched this little procession, as they came by, it gets better, because then I went up the elevator to call anybody in my life I ever knew. And at the time, this was a very expensive proposition. You know, making phone calls internationally. And as I come out the elevator, I see anc, and it's all this electronic equipment. I had met the guys who were being trained as photojournalists two years before in Zambia. I worked a lot overseas. So in Zambia, I met these. These two guys who were being trained. If Nelson Mandela was ever released from prison, they would be the documentarians. And as I come out the elevator, these two guys are standing there. We embraced. He said, go get dressed. We'll sneak you into the event. We're talking about six presidents from the Southern African nations. I got dressed. Long story short, I snuck my way into this event. All my clothes were dirty. I'm washing things, drying things, you know, it was crazy. And I had been in the field, so it wasn't like I was ready to go to a state dinner. But being white, I have to admit, helped a lot. So I snuck through all these armies and guns and just. And people are dancing and singing because he's up at this dais. It's a hundred person long dais, and he's with each person, and everybody is up clapping, dancing, etc. And then I noticed the army was doing that, and I just slipped between a couple of guns and a couple of soldiers and sat down next to a cup of soup and my plate of dinner and got to listen to Mandela do his first speech. At the end of the speech, I went up to help my buddies clean up, and they said to me, do you want to meet him? We've told them about you. I said, what? Well, think about this. You met us when we were getting trained two years ago, and we just said, we just met this guy. So they whisper into his ear. He waves me over. I'm getting goosebumps telling this. And he looks at me and he said, shakes my hand, looks me in the eyes and said, I heard about you. And I said, I heard about you, too, Mr. Mandela. Welcome home. Goodness, those are a couple of magical, unexpected paths that I've taken.

Claire Waite Brown: 13:13

So did that continue then? You've mentioned four decades of working in leadership and personal development. Were you still following your nose that whole time, do you think?

Steve Goldberg: 13:25

Yeah, because I wound up being really blessed with good luck and fortune and hard work and preparation, like you say, is important to you, too. And I got tenure at 28 years old at a college in Canada. And I received my tenure on a Friday and on a Monday morning. I decided that this was not how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. Over the weekend, another serendipitous moment. I wound up being offered this opportunity that I could not refuse. And it was a consulting job to work 6 months and hire 40 people to go to isolated mountaintops in Saudi Arabia. I knew nothing about how to go find people to do this, but I said, yeah, that sounds great. I said, guys, you know, I really appreciate the offer, but I, I'm going to go follow my nose and, and this is me someplace that I can't say no to. And sure enough, it was a very successful project that over four decades led to different projects that took me literally around the world doing my craft and, and reinventing myself continuously. Because if you're going to be good at what you do, you want to continually refresh and skill up and just be aware of what the marketplace is needing and looking for and how you can be there and address that. It was a fascinating way of spending my career of just having opportunity find me rather than me chasing it because I'm a terrible marketer. Somehow life kind of finds me.

Claire Waite Brown: 15:07

It sounds to me like it's, yes, opportunity finding you, but also you being ahead of the game and ready to take that opportunity or be forward thinking. There's some synergy around both of those states.

Steve Goldberg: 15:22

Yeah. And I think the part about creativity is really important here because a lot of the preparation I did in anticipation that this would be a good path, professional path, didn't work out or I was ahead of my time. Like my suggestion of, you know, where the world was going to be 50 years ago. So I've had many experiences of being ahead of my time. I don't regret the learning I did and the insights and that I, I was able to come up with, but it didn't necessarily connect to the timing of the marketplace, let's say. I think it's important. If you're looking to do this for, for pleasure, if you're looking to do this because it gives you meaning, et cetera, great. If you're looking to do it as a profession, it gets really tricky because you really start to focus on performance and, and perfection. And I think that that can really often ruin the creative sparks that are so critical for being able to be successful. So, you know, for example, with my music, I, I guess if it's okay, we'll just kind of move into that a little bit. Yeah, I, I never played the piano until I was 50 years old. And to me, it was like many people, oh, I want to learn the piano. And the thing about learning anything is you can get okay at the beginning, and you can start believing that, oh, I got it. You know, there's that initial phase of excitement and putting all your enthusiasm into it. And then the hard part starts as you start to develop a level of skill. And I. I have just met person after person who have said, yeah, I. I started playing, but I got frustrated and I stopped. And I think you could say that about many things. And so that whole concept of being able to really give yourself time and energy and patience to learn to stumble, et cetera, it was so weird because when I started composing music, and a big part of that happened during COVID and I found Covid, to me, a fascinating period, and it's really where the seeds for my book came. And the book is called Languishing or Blossoming. It's about a guide to mindful living for any age. And the book really focuses on this whole concept of during COVID the number of people who struggled mightily and others who found this very liberating time. And I think as my initial comments about artificial intelligence and meaning of work, et cetera, we're going to have a much larger period of that where there's going to be people languishing and others blossoming. I'm finding that that is both scary and fascinating, and it's going to be really fascinating to watch where our world goes and how people manage having more time in their lives. For some, that is going to be liberating, and for some, that's going to be very, very painful. Yeah.

Claire Waite Brown: 18:46

I think the COVID thing was like a little dress rehearsal. I speak to a lot of people on this show who really got into their creative activities during COVID because they had that time, and as you said, not everybody will have found that thing that they could do. And I think also with that. And the same is true then, with the AI, is that from a mindset point of view, for very many years, we've all put our value on ourselves, as on our job, on our career. That's how we're valuable. So when you don't have that, are you valuable? Which is then a whole nother. Another topic for another podcast.

Steve Goldberg: 19:24

And if there aren't jobs. Right. You know, where does your meaning come from?

Claire Waite Brown: 19:29

Yeah.

Steve Goldberg: 19:30

Creative expression. Yeah.

Claire Waite Brown: 19:33

So let's go back to. I want to ask why the piano? And why at that particular stage in your life, do you think, I don't.

Steve Goldberg: 19:41

Know I have a best friend who I just have so much respect for. We met, and he took me to a church basement and started playing piano for me. And I was so stunned by where that took me and where music can take us. And I just said, boy, one day I would love to be able to make the time and energy and try to learn just a tiny piece of what he can do so easily. And again, it wasn't until this period of starting to learn in my 50s and then having Covid to where I could really dive in and become a very, you know, more. Much more of a serious student. But it was a serious student of improvisation. Not kind of structured learning, because I'm not a structured learning guy. I don't read music. I work with something called my goose Pump Compass. So I started to spend time understanding coding patterns, key signatures and emotions that get created through key signatures and looking at the impact that that has on composition and music and emotions. So if I started playing something and I started to get goose flesh, I said, that's something I need to kind of pay attention to. So each of my compositions at some point, and it might be silence, a pause, slowing down, a piece changing from a major to a minor cording system, and what that does for our psyches, you know, what goes on inside as we slow down, as we pause. And with the theme of creating healing piano music for a noisy world, it's about helping. I mean, this is what's reported back to me, is that the music has a huge calming effect. It has a soothing way of being able to kind of stop and pause. And I've been shocked at the feedback that I've gotten over the last two years since I've released these albums where I feel like that the feedback I've gotten is way more heartfelt and soulful than my four decades of working in the field when I did get lots of positive praise for what I did. So there's something about how music can touch us deeper. And I am just incredibly grateful that I stumbled on this. And it's been a gift that's given to me that I have, you know, feel a responsibility to. To share, you know, because it doesn't feel like it's me. It feels like I'm kind of a pathway of something, you know? But I guess the message that I really want to give around this is I just see myself as a regular guy. I don't see myself as anything special. I don't see myself as, like. It took me the longest time to use creative and in the Same sentence about me. It just never was a word that I would use to describe myself. So now I'm slowly owning that and realizing that if I, as a regular guy who thought I was pretty self aware, had no awareness of my creativity, I just feel it can say volumes to others who might be questioning their abilities and creative pursuits. And so, you know, it's just an invitation, you know, to say, hey, if this regular guy can be out there doing something that surprised him, I bet you many others can too.

Claire Waite Brown: 23:38

Yeah. If you're getting a goosebump moment, but you don't read or write music traditionally, how do you notate or record or keep that piece of music that's given you the goosebumps and you want to reproduce?

Steve Goldberg: 23:53

This was a shocker to me. So my buddy Bill, who I was mentioning before. It took me a year to share this with anybody, and I finally decided, deep breath, I'm going to send this off to Bill. And within a half hour, Bill responded back and said, record it. Well, he said, it's good, Record it. And I said, okay. So I wound up finding a sound engineer who came into my home and we set up all this gear. And he said, well, how do you want to do this? Well, I said, well, I'll just start to play. I have, you know, these pieces and I'll play one, I'll take pause, play the next, etc. And because it's in my head, so I did. I sat down and I played virtually this whole album. There was one piece that we went and we redid, but basically it was one sitting, one time right through. So how did I do that? I realized I memorized all this. Okay, this is all in my head. So it's 24 minutes, but it's meant for kind of yoga relaxation, for background, for meditation. So I purposely wanted it that size. And then I found the software that converts music to notes. And I went, ah, this is cool. Because I've always had the dream and I still have this dream. And if there's anybody out there who plays cello and wants to collaborate, I'd love to, because I keep hearing cello in this. And I came out that there were 28 pages of sheet music that were captured to do this album. And I'm going, oh. So I just had to memorize 28 pages of sheet music. And so I'm hoping as I get older and my memory probably starts to decay a bit, that I am going to need another kind of method. But, you know, so far these melodies seem to stick in me and I find that's the other thing. If I start humming a melody that I start I'm playing with, I know, again, that's worth pursuing and remembering. So, so far so good. It's still in there.

Claire Waite Brown: 26:21

Yeah. That is very interesting. You've mentioned the book and making music, recording music. How does the piano fit in generally with your everyday life? Like, what kind of things are you doing in everyday life? And how does piano playing come into it for yourself? And like, what do you think are the benefits to you in other aspects of life that you found from having this surprise outlet of creativity?

Steve Goldberg: 26:57

I think at this point I just find I live in this beautiful lush forest on an island in Canada, and so nature to me is so inspiring. And I find that sitting down at the piano with the wood stove going and soft lighting and is just an incredibly meditative process for me and enjoyable to those who come and enjoy it with me. My. My life partner, you know, sitting on the couch and having her close her eyes and fall off to sleep, to me is just a beautiful gift of being able to kind of share what I do. I'm finding that this social media stuff is fascinating, can take up all sorts of time, but it is a way to kind of share what you're doing. And I somehow, again, because I feel like this stuff comes through me. Like, again, this book Languishing and Blossoming came through me very quickly. And it's a purposely thin ebook that kind of engages an audience to just think about where they are on their path. So, you know, part of me is looking to do this for my own personal enjoyment and value. And the other part is, is I have energy to continue to kind of share the music, the insights from the book, and. And being there in kind of a mentorship role for folks who are looking to make this journey, particularly if there's been some languishing going on in their lives. And how do you help refresh that? And I feel really grateful that I feel like I can authentically model that rather than just talk about that.

Claire Waite Brown: 28:44

So I'm just interested in the languishing bit of this now. So you've got languishing or blossoming. Is languishing something that you experienced yourself then?

Steve Goldberg: 28:55

Yeah, it's interesting. I think I probably am a lifelong languisher because I think I've been. I was a born pessimist and I can go to very dark places very, very quickly. And because of that, I have had to develop the skills of a learned optimist. And that's an everyday pursuit. So without getting too political here, I feel like the world is going in very different places than I believe it should go in. That weighs extremely heavy on me. Now. How do I manage that? I do not watch the news. I stay informed. I stay informed enough so that I know what's going on and I can speak generally about what's going on, but I don't let it continually go to the pit of my stomach. So I feel like one is I just really need to manage myself. You know, I think there's a choice point. So I know I could live in a languishing world very easily and my life would be very different. And you know, I don't use the word flourishing, for example, very purposely, because blossoming is a continuous process. You know, when you say, oh, I want to flourish, well, okay, Waite a minute, hold on. Let's kind of break this down and let's slow it down. Let's just go from going from a little seedling that you plant and a stem pops up and you know, and then, oh my God, there's a tiny little flower on there. Oh my God, that flower is beautiful. And that whole process takes time and intention. You know, I'm sure you're aware of positive psychology. We talk about growth, mindset and fixed mindsets and big hunks of that are a choice. Do I want to live with possibility of future and possibility in myself, or do I feel like I'm in this fixed place and that that's always going to be the place that I'm going to be living in. So particularly, I think in the aging process, a lot of people speak about, well, the best years of my life have passed me. I'm no longer able to do this. I'm feeling, you know, regrets for where you are. And I totally understand people and being in pain and people dealing with illness and disease and you know, thank God I am very healthy. So I have the opportunity to express myself and have energy to do things. So I totally get people who aren't able to do that. But there's also able bodied people who have mentally checked out. And those are the people that I want to have conversation with because I think the world really needs us when we decide that we are, you know, too old to do this, too old to do that. I. I want to challenge that. And I just feel grateful that I am where I am in my life and still feel really vital at a physical, mental, emotional, spiritual levels. And I know I feel incredibly grateful for having that luxury of doing that, because it is a luxury to think about creative pursuits. But again, if we go down into the future, will creativity be a luxury in the future or will it be a necessity as the world of work changes and work has less of the meaning in one's life? So what is meaning in one's life? Where is your heart going? Where is your energy going? Where. Where is your sense of contribution and being able to be there for yourself and others?

Claire Waite Brown: 32:50

Yeah, and we have gone in a big circle back to where we started as well with your first comments about your creativity. Now, it's been super lovely to speak with you, Steve. Tell me how people can connect with you, how we can find your book and your music. Where do we need to go?

Steve Goldberg: 33:11

Sure. Well, I'd be happy to share a link to my piano albums. My first album is called Sweet Dreams for encouraging calm, restful sleep and dreaming and another album about more calm, more restful journey. And so I absolutely make those available to everyone and also make my links to TikTok and YouTube for those interested. So I have a link tree and it will have all of the ways to get personal contact, link to the books, etc. And if you're okay, I'll send that off to you and maybe you could add that along with our conversation today.

Claire Waite Brown: 33:52

Sure, will do. Thank you so much. As I said, it's been a really lovely chat. Thank you.

Steve Goldberg: 33:58

My pleasure. Thank you. Okay, continue your good work.

Claire Waite Brown: 34:02

Thank you. I'll try. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, perhaps you'd like to financially contribute to future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound There's a link in the show notes. If you are listening on a value for value enabled app such as Fountain, TrueFans or Podcast Guru, feel free to send a few sats my way. And if you have no idea of what I'm talking about, you can find out more by listening to my sister podcast calledPodcasting 2.0 in Practice.