Regina Linke: Traditional Training Unlocks Modern Creativity

Cultural heritage, a challenging mentor and the bridge between free expression and disciplined practice. 

Regina Linke is an illustrator and writer dedicated to celebrating traditional Chinese art and philosophy in a modern way. 

Regina's childhood interest in drawing was initially stifled by rigid instruction, and she went on to study business in college followed by a career in international development. It wasn't until a move to Taiwan, her parents' homeland, that she reconnected with her artistic passion.

In Taiwan, Regina immersed herself in traditional Chinese brush painting. Despite an initial struggle with the structured learning environment, she credits her critical teacher with pushing her to develop a unique artistic voice, one that blends her Western upbringing with Eastern aesthetics. 

This fusion led to the creation of The Oxherd Boy, an online comic that grew from her desire to explain complex philosophical concepts to her young son. Regina discusses the evolution of The Oxherd Boy into published books, and the challenges of adapting her deeply personal work for diverse audiences while staying true to the core message.

In this episode Regina offers invaluable advice for aspiring creatives: find joy in the process, but also embrace the discipline of practice and the humility to learn, while illustrating how unexpected paths can lead to profound artistic expression.

Key Takeaways

• Embrace structured learning to build foundational skills, even in creative fields, as it deepens your understanding and respect for the art form.
• A challenging or critical mentor can be instrumental in pushing you beyond your comfort zone to discover your unique artistic voice.
• Blending diverse cultural backgrounds and perspectives can lead to a richer, more distinctive creative style.
• Consistent creative practice is essential for growth, even when inspiration wanes; it keeps your skills sharp and fuels further development.
• Be open to the evolution of your work when collaborating with others, understanding that adaptation can broaden your reach and create new stepping stones for your message.

Buy arts and crafts techniques books, plus books by some of my podcast guests, from the Creativity Found bookshop 

Help me to keep making this podcast at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound

Chapters

• 1:24 Introduction to Creativity Found
• 2:58 Childhood Art as Expression
• 6:41 College and South America
• 10:25 Time in Taiwan
• 12:40 Traditional Chinese Brush Painting
• 17:14 Forge Your Own Path
• 20:34 The Oxherd Boy Stories: Philosophical Answers to Difficult Questions
• 24:40 From Online to Book
• 31:49 Bringing the Perspective Back to the US
• 34:12 Find Something That Brings You Joy
• 36:21 Connect with Regina
• 37:05 Support Creativity Found

Transcript

Regina Linke: 0:59

My relationship with art was one of free expression, which I didn't feel was compatible with direct instruction and someone putting boundaries and having me do very boring, very repetitive practice work did not feel very freeing and creative to me. The Taiwanese studio, I think, was one in which it was more of like a traditional painter's atelier, in which we were expected to learn the history, the canon of traditional Chinese art, the thousands of years, and to study the masters and to learn how to replicate a lot of their techniques. My confidence took a blow for sure. At the same time, though, he also said that there was an opportunity for me to forge my own past. Hi, I'm Claire.

Claire Waite Brown: 1:52

For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or refound their creativity as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the art, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits. And how their creative lives enrich their practical, necessary, everyday lives. This time I am speaking with Regina Linke. Hi Regina, how are you? Hi Claire, I'm doing well. Thanks so much for having me on the show. You're very welcome. I am looking forward to our chat. Start by telling me about your refound creative outlet.

Regina Linke: 2:43

Sure. So uh right now I am dedicated mostly to illustrating and writing stories that celebrate traditional Chinese art and philosophy in a modern way. So, in short, really taking old ancient teachings and visual arts and tailoring it for a modern and primarily Western audience to open up their perspective to a different way of looking at art and life and hopefully sharing some of the wisdom that has lasted throughout the ages across uh Chinese history. Fantastic.

Claire Waite Brown: 3:24

When you were younger, did creative activities play a part in your life, whether at home or at school? Were they encouraged?

Regina Linke: 3:34

Yes. So when I was a child, I definitely had an interest in drawing, in painting, in just exploring my world through visual medium. And uh this I think was something that really developed in uh preschool. And it was something that my parents didn't really know about until my mom entered my pre-kindergarten classroom, and there were all of these examples and samples from the students' artwork on the walls. There was one that struck her, an image of a very well-proportioned apple, and there was a little worm crawling out of it. And she asked the teacher whose it was, and the teacher said, Well, it was your daughter's. And it kind of took her by surprise because I don't think that it was necessarily something that I did all the time, but given the opportunity, I definitely just enjoyed it and um had some kind of natural-born gift for it. And my mom especially felt that this was uh worth pursuing. So she did sign me up for some basic drawing lessons and uh I did some, you know, relief work and pottery and things like that. She signed me up for kids' classes, but I think I was the kind of kid who just um didn't do so well under direct instruction. And so I didn't really enjoy the classes because for me at the time, especially at that age, it was more of an outlet to just play and to have fun. So I didn't really pursue more classes in art and creativity for a very long time. Uh, it was mostly something that I dabbled in here and there when the inspiration struck, but for most of my life, it was very haphazard and not structured at all.

Claire Waite Brown: 5:34

So if you if you didn't like being taught to do creative things, what were you like in school in other topics? Were you okay being taught?

Regina Linke: 5:45

Right, right. Well, I think uh it goes hand in hand with um my interests and what perhaps when I was younger I felt to be maybe mutually exclusive. So my relationship with art was one of free expression, which I didn't feel was compatible with direct instruction and someone putting um boundaries and uh having me do very boring, very repetitive practice work did not feel very freeing and creative to me. Whereas something that like maths or or science or s or history, in which the, you know, I felt maybe uh was a little bit more uh structured already, a little bit more rigid. And so my relationship with it was different. And so I actually excelled in those classes and um, you know, was open to more, more teaching, more direct teaching um in those subjects because maybe I felt that they were more compatible. But, you know, I think as as I've grown older, the lines have blurred so much more and there can be so much creativity in the maths and sciences, as much as you might find in music or art. And and so, but I I think, you know, as a kid and even as a young adult, I felt those lines were definitely harder boundaries that couldn't be crossed.

Claire Waite Brown: 7:05

No, I can understand that. What were your plans for the future when you grew up?

Regina Linke: 7:14

Yes, I mean, uh I think that I didn't have very strong plans. And I think that as someone who did well in school, and I went to very, very academically competitive high school with lots of children of first-generation immigrants who knew that they, you know, were going into pre-med or engineering. I felt a little bit at a loss because uh my parents didn't place any expectations on me professionally. I think they wanted me to have a relatively stable profession, but wherever my interests lay, they were willing to support me in that direction. But I never entertained the idea of pursuing a creative career. And so, like probably many people who didn't know what they wanted to do, I kind of fiddled around with a lot of different classes. And then finally, um, no, my dad was like, well, regardless of what you do, you're gonna have to learn to balance your own books. So why don't you get a degree in business? I said, okay. And I ended up getting a business degree at university, and and it was uh one of those things that I sort of just fell into without much passion, but without much complaint either. It was sort of a thing to do. I also majored in Spanish because I really loved the the language. I grew up in in Texas, actually, and so huge Mexican and Central American influence and on the culture there. And it was interesting because while I was getting my degree, I ended up landing a very, very competitive internship. They were kind of training us to enter management level positions upon graduation. And so my parents were thrilled. You know, they were like, this is great, you're just on this fast track, and you're gonna have this like stable job as soon as you graduate. And it was with a military contractor. And um, I remember being at this kind of recognition ceremony um afterwards, and they gave us these like kind of commemorative mouse pads for the computer, and it had like all these like different missiles going off in different directions. And then it was like, you know, the Boeing company keeping peace around the world. And I was just like, wow, uh, it was sort of a moment of epiphany, like, like, like, let's let's really think about this, what you're getting into. And so I decided to leave that program, much to my parents' dismay. And um, I I ended up studying abroad in South America and you know, seeing more of the world. And I um I ended up going into international development work, taking my business skills and trying to do uh good and not evil. And so my creativity in terms of you know my my drawing and and things like that, it it ended up taking, you know, sort of a a different turn because as I was doing a lot of traveling and living in South America, I started doing more um just uh sketching, sketching what I saw, and uh eventually did uh as the technology improved, did some digital photography and things like that, but still very much a hobby that supplemented kind of the the other work that I was doing that gave me my daily bread.

Claire Waite Brown: 10:52

Yeah. Speaking of travel, how did you come to uh go to Taiwan and then what happened there that kind of picked you? That is the next phase.

Regina Linke: 11:02

Yes. So I continued doing a lot of development work when I moved back to the US, primarily working with tourism boards and governments on how to develop their local economies around tourism and hospitality. That was uh work that I felt combined private industry and also just cultural exchange and in an industry that had a lot more impact on the local population, more so than a lot of other industries that appeared to me to be a little bit more exploitative. And so I was working there for quite a while. And eventually, after I had my son, I was working from home, and so was my husband. And so we had this window of opportunity in which my son was still not quite at the age in which he was going to start school yet, but uh we were mobile, and so I decided, you know, why not take this opportunity to live in a different country again? And so um we decided to move to the other side of the world to Taiwan, where this that's where my parents uh immigrated to the US from. And so we still had relatives and some friends there. The plan was to live there for a couple of years, but of course, with the pandemic, we ended up staying almost five years. Uh, but it was a wonderful time in which uh I was able to explore my cultural heritage from the ground. And it was interesting because we had moved there and I had gone there thinking, oh, well, I I look like everyone here and I speak the language and I'm going to immerse myself in the local culture. But it was a very interesting experience in that I had come to realize that really I was very much American. And as an American, someone who grew up in the States, I was actually visiting my quote-unquote homeland as an outsider and learning it and experiencing it from a Western lens. And so being there, I decided to start taking some traditional Chinese brush painting classes because it was a kind of art form that I had always admired, but couldn't really appreciate or understand because the aesthetic is quite different than uh Western style composition and perspective and the use of color and all of the expressionism that goes into Western art is um can be quite opposite from the restrained, more, I guess, balanced perspective of Eastern art and how sparing it can look in comparison. Um, so being interested in that, I wanted to learn more about it. And so I found a studio and and started taking lessons there. Yeah, so it was that's sort of how it how it all started and snowballed.

Claire Waite Brown: 13:59

And with it being different, as you came to realize, and with what was spoken about earlier about those blurred boundaries between a prescriptive way of doing something and being taught, how did you find that whole process of then going back to being taught something that actually needed to be taught because you didn't necessarily know it?

Regina Linke: 14:24

Right, right, exactly. It was really interesting. I think um entering into a creative field as an older adult, I I mean, I was I was already in my mid-30s, I guess. Having having gone through the process now, I think that having the awareness that I really knew nothing about this was critical to my being able to be teachable, really. If I had gone in thinking, oh, you know, this is just gonna be free self-expression, like I would not have been able to thrive in that studio at all. Because the Taiwanese studio, I think, was one in which it was more of like a traditional painter's atelier, in which we were expected to learn the history, the canon of traditional Chinese art, the thousands of years, and to study the masters and to learn how to replicate a lot of their techniques and to put ourselves in their shoes and to try to see the world from the perspective of the masters. And so it was not independent at all. It was very structured and all of the practice in terms of the technique, the line work, the mixing of the colors, the um learning how to properly mix the right density of ink to water, and everything was very meticulously done. The preparation of your workstation, the paper that you used, it was very regimented. But I think at that time I was already open to just learning the skills because it's almost like you have to have the basic building blocks before you can start playing with them, right? And so I was definitely more teachable, more open to being taught. And it was great. It was um a completely different relationship that I was able to open with creative arts. And even though it wasn't necessarily play for me anymore, it definitely deepened my relationship and the and respect for for all that came before. I I really appreciated my teacher for showing me that.

Claire Waite Brown: 16:40

Yeah. It reminds me of ballet. Yeah, right. That can then go into all these different dance styles where the basic is the ballet, which is quite difficult to do.

Regina Linke: 16:52

I know, right? Um, and I mean, I I was only in Taiwan for five years. And so for something like ballet or even someone who like grew up in this uh discipline to spend so many years being regimented and disciplined in your practice, and then in order to get past the plateau and to actually develop your own voice, means breaking some of the rules and breaking your past relationship with the rules is huge 180 and a huge ask, I think, to be able to do that. So I, yeah, it's incredible though, when it happens.

Claire Waite Brown: 17:27

So do you by this developing your own style, breaking the rules, do you think you're mixing a bit of you know the heritages or the or the genres of your American self? Is that how it developed?

Regina Linke: 17:44

Mm-hmm. I was I was rather pushed into that because uh my teacher, um, at after a few years, he he's always been very um very critical. He expected a lot from his students, but at the same time, I think he was also very honest and forthright about what what each of us needed to hear in order to keep progressing. And so for some students, he did keep in a more traditional route. But I think that knowing my background and also knowing that I was a uh a mom to a young, you know, child with family responsibilities, he knew that I also wasn't the type who would spend 10 hours a day painting and perfecting my work. And so he did he said um to me, he uh one day, he's like, you know, your your technique isn't bad, especially for a Westerner, but you are never going to be a great traditional Chinese painter. And I grew up in the late 80s and 90s when everyone in the in the US public school system was getting trophies and ribbons for participating and, you know, wonderful effort, you know, you get a certificate now. Uh, you know, it was it was a very, very harsh thing to hear from a teacher. And I was, you know, my my confidence took a blow for sure. At the same time, though, he also said that there was an opportunity for me to forge my own path because of my Western upbringing, because of my familiarity with Western style art and perspective. And he did encourage me to veer away from tradition, to not be so concerned about the technical aspect and being true to all of the techniques that he had spent the last few years teaching me. Um, and so I started to show him. You have given me permission to start playing, so I will. I did start, you know, branching out into different illustrations inspired by Chinese painting techniques. And so these were little drawings and projects that, you know, I started uh showing him and he would give me, you know, just one-on-one feedback and give me tips on what else I could think about and uh ways in which I could incorporate more of the tradition into it or, you know, balance it out with uh some of uh my other ideas that might not be so traditional. And so that really just morphed uh into the work that I do now, in which I'm still trying to find the right balance with every piece, with every project. And sometimes it will look more traditional, and sometimes it will definitely look more like a modern manga illustration. Um but I think that uh part of part of finding your voice is not necessarily something that always looks like what you did before, but sounds like you as you're going through the process of creating the project. And so um it's it's sort of a moving target, but it's been a lot of fun to to kind of just work through and dance with, yeah.

Claire Waite Brown: 22:15

And the current culmination of that is the Oxherd Boy and the stories. Right, right. So tell me about the birth of this boy and the stories and the philosophies and and what you what you're doing with it.

Regina Linke: 22:34

Yeah, it's it's a it's really fascinating how it all kind of developed simultaneously. So my son was about um four years old at the time and uh coming into his own kind of consciousness and understanding of or trying to understand and make sense of the world. And um, he had started becoming aware of death and also had a really strong sense of fairness and uh justice. I think as as an only child for most of his life, you know, he he really considered himself one of us, you know, why do you get to stay up later and I don't? Or why do you, why is your serving of ice cream larger than mine? Things like that. There were also just questions that were very deeply, you know, difficult to answer, even even as an adult, you know, trying to explain why, why there's a homeless person on the street, you know. And so the things that I struggled to answer to the satisfaction of my son, you know, I started looking towards what was around me, you know, how how did Taiwanese society and how does a Taiwanese mindset approach some of these questions? And a lot of it stemmed from teachings from thousands of years ago, uh, a lot of it from Confucianism, but also from a spiritual aspect, Buddhism and Taoism, you know, combining to create kind of this uh Zen philosophy, also figured in large part with it. So taking kind of both of these elements and converting it into writing, into a conversational dialogue, and then adding characters illustrated in the traditional Chinese style, the Oxherd Boy combined all of those aspects to visually make these very tough and deep topics accessible to hopefully a child. And so The Oxherd Boy was an online comic, basically, that I started on Instagram and um really just took off from there in a very strange and surprising, but you know, wonderful way, opened up a community from around the world to to just um enjoy some of these comforting and inspiring dialogues that also help me make sense of the world with my son. And so that became a book in print and then was uh adapted basically into a storybook for children as well. It's been such a gift to work on, really, because it's something that now can be shared just uh with anybody who's just looking for some something that can help make sense of the world in a in a very um nice, uh comforting, approaching way, I think.

Claire Waite Brown: 25:37

And you didn't start it for the reason of publishing, as you've just explained. So, therefore, how did they come, the stories, and I know there are more going forward as well, I believe, come to come to be um published as as books. And and what was that process like for you as well? Because it's quite a personal project that you then go, like, give it to an agent or an editor, and how do you let go of your precious work?

Regina Linke: 26:05

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think that when I started writing it, it was really an exercise in maintaining a practice and maintaining a touch point with creativity, right? And so, you know, going back to what we had talked about in, you know, my previous relationship with art and and self-expression, I knew that I couldn't, I couldn't really improve and I couldn't really keep going unless I established a regular drawing and writing practice. And so the Oxford boy in the online format was really a way for me to maintain the practice. And yeah, that doesn't sound very exciting. And certainly there were weeks in which I was like, well, do I really have to make another one? I'm kind of tired right now, you know. But uh, you know, there that that's also kind of a necessary part of creativity where, you know, practice is part of it. It's fuel. And um, even if it's every work is not gonna be my best work, you know, actually at least putting it out there keeps keeps my pencil sharp. So when the when the Instagram account basically went viral, a lot of people were asking about a book. You know, you know, it's like I don't always want to look at my phone when I want to look at your work. And I I completely understood that because social media can be a very, I guess, dangerous is is an appropriate word, but I mean it just becomes a time sink. And it can be invasive, can't it? Right, right. And so I understood that. I get that someone might want to just curl up with a cup of tea with a book like this. And so I started looking into, you know, how to publish a book. And it it would have been so much easier to self-publish, but I was I was ready to to just see, you know, okay, it'll probably take 10 years, maybe, who knows. Um, but as luck would have it, I ended up participating in a Twitter pitch party called Pit Mad. I think it it's it's since kind of retired, but that's how I found my literary agent. We we talked, uh, we discussed uh new projects and kind of my philosophy and and my ideas, and it was a great match. So I ended up basically signing with her within like three or four months. And her name's Liz, and Liz was just completely invested in developing me as a writer and an illustrator, and she she knew what I needed in order to get up to a professional level. And she gave me exercises on developing each character, thinking through their backstory. And all of these exercises came together in which, even though I had some story ideas for children, um, they weren't necessarily cohesive, you know, like kind of built a world around them. And, you know, they're kind of just like random and one-off. But as I was going through these exercises, a lot of the stories and the conflicts and the potential plot lines sort of develop themselves in a very organic way. Because through the exercises, I was developing a universe and creating consistencies in which conflicts might naturally arise between the characters and their backgrounds and what they believed. And so from that, we were able to pull a number of really strong plot lines and put together a cohesive proposal for publishers to explore. And she ended up pitching the Oxherd Boy, you know, kind of collection, which was, you know, what we had in mind before, you know, kind of the Instagram account, but pulled together in a more succinct kind of collection. And then kind of the series of children's stories, which uh took ideas from the adult book and really just fleshed them out into uh narratives that would be uh a lot more fun and interesting for children anywhere from like four to eight years old for them to actually enjoy. Yeah, so uh those are the books that I'm working through now. And it's uh each one has been a very special project in itself. But uh, you know, like like you said, the more people, the more cooks you invite into the kitchen, the the work itself is going to evolve and change. And so I think that has been a little bit of a source of growing pains for me because um, you know, as a solo creator, you have full autonomy and decision-making power into where you want to take a particular work. And so to work with editors and art directors who might have different ideas about what is going to appeal to others is um it can be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes because it has gone in in conflict with the philosophy sometimes. So it's like, you know, if I'll give an example. So in Taoism, a lot of um the philosophy is about not uh taking any deliberate action that goes against the natural course of things. Well, that does not fly well with American ideas of exceptionalism and individuality. So I've had to dial back on some of those ideas. And it's a little sad, you know, to me sometimes to have to change a story that I feel like uh should have been told a certain way. I think that I've I've had to come to accept that, you know, okay, like if this is a story that is going to change in order to help be a bridge to an audience that's not ready, maybe to read the actual story that I wanted to tell. Like I have to accept that this story is not the same story. It's a different story and it's a stepping stone story. And the story that I really wanted to tell. Is a story that I'm going to have to work on at a later date or through a different project. And maybe the readers are not going to be the same, but that's okay, you know, because everyone is coming to the story at a different stage from a different perspective. And some people might not be ready for a certain story, but they can at least enjoy this one, maybe, and eventually grow into something, something else that I'm working on. And so yeah, it's it's definitely an evolution in my own perspective about the work and how much I'm willing to let go or to change in order to tell the stories that are most suitable.

Claire Waite Brown: 32:46

It's interesting and it makes me think of another question, because you're going further away from what you experienced with your time in Taiwan by being back in America and having American audiences. So did you ever feel when you came back to the US and you you don't have that class situation and you're not so immersed by that, did you ever feel it might be difficult to keep going with this new interest and this new creativity? Or were you kind of like, look, I'm getting so many other benefits from this in my life. I'm back to America, I can really, really use it well.

Regina Linke: 33:22

I think that uh being away from the environment, it hasn't necessarily made me feel more American. Which I yeah, like I never really thought of that question. But I feel like having been immersed in a place in which I felt both a curiosity for and also incredibly changed by, bringing those perspectives home. I don't know. I feel like I I've held on to them longer than I would have expected, um, maybe because the experience I think changed my perspective and my relationship with art, um, with parenting, being reflective about what is the role of society and what are the roles of families and how do we live in the world. You know, these are questions that really germinated with my son in Taiwan. And those are the ideas that I still come back to even now in the States and, you know, in the US, where people do answer those questions very differently, the the contrast I think is always heightened in my mind. And so I don't think uh it has been so difficult to try to hold on to those feelings and to tap into them often with my work. It's a it's a source of inspiration, I think, for for the work itself. And striking that balance, I think, is always always there too. Yeah.

Claire Waite Brown: 34:53

Well, that's brilliant. That's good.

Regina Linke: 34:56

Yeah, yeah. I never thought of it, but I I'm glad I'm glad you you brought it up because I, you know, to to put a finger on it is yeah, it's a good feeling. Thank you.

Claire Waite Brown: 35:10

Do you have any advice for others who wants to try something creative but is hesitant? Do you have any words of wisdom or just a little bit of encouraging advice?

Regina Linke: 35:25

Yes, so I think that finding something that brings you joy through creating is just such an important part of getting over our fears of creative work in general. And I think that at least for me, sometimes it can be daunting to feel like, oh, every every single act of creativity needs to be laced with meaning and represents something about myself that I'm putting out into the world. And, you know, well, what if I don't have anything to say, or what if it's not interesting, or what if it's not great? That's a lot of pressure. And um, and I think that it it should be fun, especially when you're starting out. It should be interesting, it should spark curiosity and to tap into those feelings, I think, is um is is gonna be so so important to getting over, you know, the the hesitation. Um, and so to do the things that feel um good and natural and uh fun, I think is is just so important starting out. And then also don't be like me, just where you don't want to be teachable. At some point, we all need to learn. And um it's good, it's good also to be to be humble, to, to learn the skills, to do the boring work of the practice, because that's the only way that we get better. From my perspective, to be creative, you need those two two poles. You need the the fun, the letting loose, and then you also need the discipline and the practice. They're they're kind of two sides of the same coin that really lets us create our best work.

Claire Waite Brown: 37:17

Thank you so much, Regina.

Regina Linke: 37:19

How can people connect with you? Sure. So if you are looking for sort of the inspirational messaging from the work, oxherdboy.org is the best place to be. Um, I send out all of my newest material and all of the newest uh inspirational chats through my newsletter there. If you're interested more in the creator side, Reginalinke.com is a place to go for that. And uh that's where we um I get a little bit more technical about writing, drawing, kind of the creative practice and what the industry has been like. Different ways to connect depending on what you're interested in. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our chat. Thank you. This was a lot of fun.

Claire Waite Brown: 38:02

I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, perhaps you'd like to financially contribute to future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/ creativityfound. There's a link in the show notes. If you are listening on a value for value enabled app, such as Fountain, TrueFans, or Podcast Guru, feel free to send a few stats my way. And if you have no idea of what I'm talking about, you can find out more by listening to my sister podcast called Podcasting 2.0 in Practice.