Oksana Kukurudza – storytelling in times of conflict

Oksana Kukurudza is currently immersed in a deeply personal writing project titled Sunflowers Bend But Rarely Break, which explores her parents' harrowing experiences as forced labourers in Nazi Germany during World War II. Oksana's motivation for writing stems not only from her parents' stories but also from the striking parallels she observes between their experiences and the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.
Born and raised in Western Ukraine, which was part of Poland before the war, Oksana's mother, just 17 years old in 1941, and her father, 20 at the time, fell victim to Nazi propaganda and coercion that led many Slavs to Germany for forced labor. This choice, however, resulted in her enduring harsh treatment and effectively being imprisoned as a labourer.
In her research for the book, Oksana has uncovered deeper layers of her parents' experiences, revealing aspects of their lives that were previously unknown to her. This has led Oksana to approach her writing with a blend of historical accuracy and creative narrative, aiming to immerse readers in the emotional landscape of her parents' lives during the war.
The title of the book, Sunflowers Bend But Rarely Break, symbolizes resilience in the face of adversity – a theme that resonates deeply with Oksana as she draws connections to the current situation in Ukraine. The ongoing war has evoked memories of her parents' struggles, prompting her to advocate for awareness and support for Ukraine. Oksana believes that history is repeating itself, and feels a strong responsibility to illuminate these parallels for a new generation. By sharing her parents' story Oksana hopes that she can contribute to a greater understanding of the human experiences behind historical events and inspire action to support Ukraine in its current plight.

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Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
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Chapters

• 3:39 History repeating itself
• 5:03 Forced labor in Nazi Germany
• 11:20 Rediscovering creativity through writing
• 21:06 Narrative nonfiction and emotional journey
• 28:55 Corporate responsibility
• 32:14 Advocacy for Ukraine support

Transcript

0:48

I started going out and protesting and speaking to friends about what's happening in Ukraine and raising money. But there's more that I can do. And I remembered my parents' stories and thought to myself, what's happening every day on the news is so familiar to what I found out about what happened to them. I did miss the truly creative fantasy piece, I guess, of creative writing, where you don't have to write about something that exists in reality. You can write about things that are completely made up. I think it's going to be hard finishing writing this book, but I believe that it will help me become a stronger person Hi, I'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a community for creative learners and educators, connecting adults who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and crafters who can help them do so with workshops, courses, online events and kits. For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or re-found their creativity as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits, and how their creative lives enrich their practical, necessary, everyday lives. This time I'm chatting Hi Oksana, how are you? I'm very well Claire, thanks Start by telling me please how you are currently tapping into Sure, I'm finding a number of ways and so From my work, I typically haven't done a lot of creative things. So I started out in public accounting after university. I studied accounting and finance, went to business school, and then I went on to management consulting for one of the large technology and consulting firms globally. So there wasn't, you know, too much creativity in there. As creative as you could be with PowerPoint decks, we'll just say. However, I have been tapping into writing recently and so I'm in the process of writing a book as well as I've been writing a number of articles for a blogging platform called Medium. And I've been doing a number of podcasts to both publicize the creative writing that I've been doing and to gain attention to the world about what's going on in Ukraine and how There are so many experiences or events happening in Ukraine today that are eerily familiar with what we went through before and during World War II. Crikey. Yes. That's a lot to already think about. I know. Before we've even started. So obviously I've spoken to you before so I know about the book that you're in the process of writing and I know that that is in the forefront of your mind with everything that's going on in the real world right now. So can you tell me just a little bit about the subject matter of the book and then we'll come back a bit more to your life story. Sorry for giving you so much straight away to think about. So the book is called Sunflowers Bend But Rarely Break. I've completed about 50% of it only because I'm in the process of rewriting it now that I'm working with a book agent, which is exciting news. And she really wanted me to focus on an area of my parents' life. And my parents were born and raised prior to World War II in Western Ukraine, which at that time was a part of Poland. And they witnessed and survived World War II living and working in Germany. And so the book is specifically about their time as forced laborers in Nazi Germany during World War II and their very individual experiences because they weren't married at the time. They were young and single people. My mother was 17. in 1941, and my father was 20 in 1941, when the Germans were either using propaganda to incite Slavs to come to Eastern Germany or come to Germany willingly for work, or they were just outright deporting them Goodness me. And how much did you know about this in your parents' lives before you started researching for So we always knew that my parents worked in Germany during World War II. They both talked about it. My father really didn't talk about it, I shouldn't say that, but he admitted that he worked in Germany and that's during the war and that's how he ended up meeting and marrying my mother. My mother spoke about it a little bit more. She talked about how she went to Nazi Germany because there were no jobs and people were starving in her towns and villages within Western Ukraine. And so she really had no choice. And she went to have a better life for herself, she thought at the time, and to help out her family in Ukraine. And she talked about the harsh conditions that she endured while working there. It wasn't because she said she was forced labor and she had to be there and she was under lock and key, but it was more how that's just how people were treated back then in Nazi Germany and there were really weren't any alternatives for her. So there was a little bit of, I don't want to say rose-colored glasses because I don't think that's what she was recalling. I think she was trying to hide the more difficult parts and the larger horrors and traumas from her children. And that's why she didn't go into as much depth as Yeah. When you were younger then, and you've already touched on your career in accounting, in consultants, in business, in that whole world. So when you were a child, were you creatively encouraged and did you have a plan of what you wanted to do when So my mother was always very fond of books and reading, mainly newspapers, though, because when she was very young, her father and her stepmother pulled her out of school. She was about seven. So she was in third grade. And for her, it was the greatest tragedy of her life that she couldn't get a good education. And so She always focused on education for her children. And my oldest sister, I'm the youngest of 12. For those in your audience, I haven't gotten that too. For my oldest sister, she had quite a bit of influence over me and helped to raise me. And she was very prolific at reading as well, very much into books. And so I grew up with this mindset of, you know, you can have so many adventures through books. And so I did a lot of reading when I was young, which then led into creative writing. And so I actually wrote my first book when I was in second grade. And then I wrote another one when I was in third grade. And the first one was just filled with creative fairy tales. So I basically did an anthology of about 10 different chapters of made up fairy tales. And then, yeah, and then as I grew older, you know, even in high school, I really enjoyed essay writing and, you know, English composition and creative writing throughout high school. But then I just didn't know if I could make a career of it. And I grew up in a very impoverished home. And so I wanted to do something with my life where I could be financially independent. And so I ended up giving up that creative part of me and moving into accounts and finance because I knew that careers there would give me the financial stability that I needed as a young adult. And then I just kind of got wrapped up in the business world for years and years. And it wasn't until a recent event that I refound my creativity and my What did that career path look like then? Was it enjoyable as well? Were there opportunities? It sounds like Yes, so it was. I mean, I would say that I probably used more of my left side of my brain than my right side of the creative brain. And, you know, I worked a lot with numbers. I also worked with words because communication is very important in the world of public accounting, as well as consulting, because you do have clients and you're working with people every day. And so it's important to build those relationships, whether they're with your clients or with your teams, and having good verbal and written communication are incredibly important. So I was able to take the, let's say, love, interest and abilities and writing and communication and pull that forward into my career. And so there were definitely things that I loved about my career. I loved my clients. I loved, you know, some of the creative process with coming up with solutions for my clients' business problems. However, I did miss the truly creative fantasy piece, I guess, of creative writing where you don't have to write about something that exists in reality. You can write about things that are completely made up and people read them So how did you come to writing again 30 years into my career, a very good friend of mine, she's worked in finance and business pretty much her entire career. She's out of Sydney, Australia. And she was making a new start with a new business venture of hers. And so she was in the process of writing some business anthologies, really about women and leadership and unlocking creative potential and how that can support your voice and support you in business and leadership. And so she asked if I would be interested in writing a chapter in one of her first anthologies called Going Against the Grain. And I recalled how much I enjoyed the creative writing process when I was younger. And I did some writing at work, not just PowerPoint writing, but some thought leadership papers. So I wasn't completely devoid of of writing. I just hadn't really done much of the creative writing since I was a child, or at least in high school. And so I said yes, and I wrote a chapter for her anthology about my perspective of going against the grain. And in the process of publicizing that book, Russia Invaded Ukraine, in February of 2022. And I was supposed to go on very shortly afterwards, and do an interview with an Australian media source. And I told my friend, I'm not sure if I can do this. I'm very emotional right now. Being a Ukrainian American, and she said, Talk about Ukraine, then. You know, you don't have to use that forum to just promote the book. You can talk about how you feel about the war and what's going on. And so I did that. And then a few weeks later, I was talking to my friend and I said, I need to do more. I started going out and protesting and speaking to friends about what's happening in Ukraine and raising money. But there's more that I can do. And I remembered my parents' stories and thought to myself, what's happening every day on the news is so familiar to what I found out about what happened to them, either from what they said or from knowledge and research and said, I really need to write a book so that I can shine a light to everyone in the world and especially the younger generation to show them that history is repeating itself. And if we don't do more for Ukraine and for Europe, we're going to wind up in World War III. Cry Cape. Yes, which is a very large objective. So I understand that I'm one small person considering and entertaining this very large objective. But, you know, if we don't start small, then we Absolutely. Was it at that point then that you researched your parents' story further or had you done some research into it before then? That was the story you wanted to tell, your parents' story, because of the I'm very much a history buff, and I've always found World War II history very interesting. And so I researched what happened in Nazi Germany during World War II. I would be attracted to things and monuments and museums that specialized in World War II. So, for example, when I was still quite young, I was living and working in Ukraine, and I spent a weekend in Krakow, Poland, and I made sure that I went to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Back in 2020, I would happen to be in Berlin when there was a major exhibit on Nazi Germany. And going through the exhibit was the first time I saw an acknowledgment globally, on a global scale, about the forced labor experience because they had an exhibit about it. So I knew a little bit going in. I knew mostly my mother's story and I knew a little bit going into my research, but I've definitely learned a whole lot more since undertaking the researching process, which didn't really start occurring until about a year after the war broke out. So I knew I wanted to write the book, but I had a one-year-old and I just didn't have the capacity to take care of all the care and feeding that she needed, balance my work and write the book. So it was really when she turned a little over two years old, but I felt ready to write the book. It was about a year after the war as well. So I really got to see the parallelisms and the, you know, repeating of events happening in the war in Ukraine as compared to World War II to really draw those parallels and be able to understand where I wanted to do the Were you able to speak with your parents about this as actual witnesses or was this after they had passed away or did you have any kind of, would it be a subject you would feel happy talking with them about Those are all very good questions. So the answer is yes and no. I did have the foresight back in high school to ask my mother if I could interview her for a school paper. And it was actually for college entrance exams. I think I used it for a school paper as well as I submitted it for for college entrance. And I still can't believe she said yes, especially with everything that I know now. And she spent a couple hours with me interviewing her about her experience. And it was interesting, Claire, because I didn't do it because I wanted to learn more about the forced labor experience, because back in 1989, no one even acknowledged that there was a forced labor experience. And that really didn't happen from Germany until the late 1990s, early 2000s. So this was, you know, way before that, I was much more interested in learning more about the Holocaust experience, and what had happened in the camps. And if my mother had had any experiences from that, you know, ancillary experiences or saw it or knew what was going on during the time. And it wasn't until I did that interview with her at 16, when she decided to go to Germany, she was still 16. So we were the same age as when she was experiencing these things. And it was through that interview that I realized what a rough life she had during that period. And it wasn't called forced labor, but it didn't sound very nice from how she explained it. And in fact, it, you know, it seemed just a bit above concentration camp labor experience. And that paper was lost to me for years and years. And so when I started writing the book, I had the secondary research, but I didn't have my mother's full story. I just had little remnants of maybe what she told me, but it wasn't cohesive. And so the first draft of writing it, there were definitely things that got wrong and definitely things that I got right. But then fortuitously, my sister found this, the old paper from 1989. And so I have the outline. I mean, it's a full essay, but I have an outline of what happened to her and where she was during those four years of her slave labor experience. And then I'm using the secondary research to fill in the blanks, as well as I would say some creativity of my own, because I didn't interview her to know who her friends were and their names, you know, I just knew she had them in the different places that she worked. And I don't I know what happened to her, but I don't know necessarily how she reacted to things or what she said. And so what I want to do with this book is I don't want to just make it the stuffy historical account. I want to turn it into what I'm calling a narrative nonfiction, where I'm bringing the reader into feeling like you're there with my parents experiencing what they're experiencing at the time it happens. And so I'm having to add characters and add color and add dialogue of what I thought they might have said or what their friends might have said or what the slave labor supervisors might have said and done. So this way, the reader can immerse themselves and feel like they're there and they're not just reading, you know, a stuffy history book. Yeah, completely understand. So I see now that there is a mix of the creative process and the creative result, but also factual researched information as well. So what I normally speak with my guests about is What a lovely time they're having doing their creative thing because it makes them feel lovely. Now the reason I'm kind of like a bit on the fence on this one about that is that it strikes me that the subject matter and the research that you're doing might not be making you feel lovely in the creative thing. So how are you kind of balancing the creative process and the possibly rather grim, painful subject matter? And are you coping with that and managing it? So far I am. The book isn't finished yet, so I can't, you know, completely say how I'm going to feel. Without giving away some of the bombshells in the book, there are some secrets about my mother that I found out through my secondary research that have been a very emotional journey for me. And there were definitely a number of things that she left out. Either she told me something happened, but she didn't give me all the context of what that meant and what they did to her and what, you know, and how she felt about it. And so I am dealing with right now, you know, a lot of emotional trauma that my mother would have experienced during that timeframe that she really didn't divulge when I interviewed her back in 1989. However, on the upside of that, it is helping me to better understand her as a human being, her as my mother, and her as a person just trying to survive and cope with what she had to live with during World War II. And it's really painting a new picture for me on a whole set of victims during World War II that really haven't never been discussed or really entertained in mainstream or at a mass level. I mean, obviously, historians who study World War Two will know about the 13 million people that were forced laborers in Germany in World War II. I know I see your eyes bug out to hear that. They came from both Western Europe and Eastern Europe, but over 6 million of them came from Eastern Europe, Slavic countries like Poland, and at the time, the Soviet Union and the Baltics. And they were treated as subhumans. So they were considered just that one class above Jews and Romans, Roma. So they were next on the list for extermination after the Nazis had finished using them as forced labor in which they really didn't get paid. And so it's really putting more of a human face onto my mother and my father. I don't know as much about what happened to my father. And you know, just forgiving them for their faults, or for, you know, maybe some of the hurt and trauma that they put on us as their children, because they were just trying to survive. So I think it's just made me more compassionate and forgiving about my parents. And it's also making me much more thoughtful about how I raised my daughter and making sure that I don't put any of my trauma, you know, or any of, you know, my, my bad luggage onto her. And so I think it's going to be hard finishing writing this book, but I believe that it will help me become a stronger person Wow, that's brilliant. You're very much involved in this particular book right now, but you're obviously relishing doing the creative writing and getting back to that creative writing that you liked as a child. I'm waiting for the fantasy actually. Let's have the fairy tales. Let's get those back out in the future. When everything with this book comes to a point of completion for you, have you had any thoughts about continuing to write in I have. I have a few ideas. So since this book will be focused on the forced labor experience of my parents and they will not have even gotten together by the end of the book, there's always the opportunity for a sequel because I'm pretty confident that once readers get to meet these characters in the first book, they're going to want to know what happens next. So I really do see a serial opportunity here. What's also interesting is other folks who have either been through this experience or are the children of forced laborers, they've come forward interested in sharing their stories. And so there could always be an opportunity as well for anthology series about this. And so I'm definitely keeping those ideas fresh in my mind to continue the storytelling because it is a large story that many people don't know and it really happened. I'm also in this process learning about how companies were so complicit during World War Two and working with Nazi Germany in use of concentration camp and forced laborers and how the world hasn't changed that much as companies I feel are too focused on profits over people and ethics. And how I could use this voice of what happened to my parents because there were large corporations that were the ones holding them captive as laborers, you know, and treating them as subhumans, that there's a responsibility for companies, even if they're not human, they're run by humans, to be more socially responsible in our society and to provide back to our society more than profits. and to think about things like, how are we using people in impoverished countries? You know, are we giving them a living wage? Are we taking advantage of undocumented workers? I believe that there's a bigger story to tell here even than the story of forced labor. during World War II or the war in Ukraine and helping companies to be more socially responsible. And that's something where I could pair my creativity and my creative writing with my business background Yeah, perfect. As you already said, you've got the parallels with Ukraine, but also with a labor market and things One of the ways, Clara, that I see coming full circle with corporate social responsibility and what's happening in the war in Ukraine is that I firmly believe that Ukraine will win this war because Europe can't survive without Ukraine winning this war. So I do believe that the US and Europe and the UK will continue to come to the aid of Ukraine to support them. But we all need to think about not just winning this war, but how to rebuild Ukraine into a flourishing democracy. And that's where I see the need for companies with strong social responsibility to be the rebuilders in Ukraine, because I want to be part of that rebuilding process. And it's only ethical companies and ethical NGOs and governments who can come in and help Ukraine not only rebuild, but eliminate the corruption that they have in the country. And so these companies really need to think not just about profits, but coming in and helping rebuild Ukraine for the Ukrainian people and to make their lives better. going forward. And so how I've been connecting all these dots is the creative writing bits, the starting to look to companies that I can start working with from a social responsibility point of view, and then focusing on advocacy, which means calling my senators and representatives to vote for Ukraine aid bills. It means going down to DC with other Ukrainian advocates, C groups and individuals and advocating for Ukraine on Capitol Hill. And as you know, we recently were able to see a huge $61 billion Ukraine aid bill pass, and that all happened a week after I was personally down in DC with 500 other people advocating for Ukraine. So this is definitely for me, this creative writing process is in the center, but it's driving so many different ways for me to contribute to society through writing, through my business knowledge, and through advocacy to support Ukraine, help companies become more socially responsible, and hopefully make Thank you. How can people with that in mind, both from an advocacy point of view, from a book point of view, how can people connect with you and also feel free to give me any other information of groups that if people are wanting to help out more with the actual Ukraine. side of things that they can contact as well? Sure. I mainly know for the United States audience. I know your audience is global. In the United States, there's the American Coalition for Ukraine. That's the group that I'm a part of that does the advocacy in DC. There are a number of great organizations in the U.S. that also support Ukraine, from Razum for Ukraine is a big one, United24, so there's a number of those. Just calling, you know, your members of parliament to continue supporting Ukraine if you're British, or French parliamentary members, or your House of Representative members and senators to continue supporting Ukraine certainly helps. and then how people can get in touch with me if they're interested. I do have a book landing page called sunflowersrarelybreak.com where they can download a first chapter of the book. They can also follow me on Medium. I'm at Oxana Kukuruza, so it's Very easy to find me, but I'm called Oxana Koukouritsa Rowley-Brake, or Sunflowers Rowley-Brake. I'm also on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, and my name is not very common, so people can definitely connect with me there You're very welcome. Thanks so much for listening to Creativity Found. I hope you enjoyed this episode and gained some value from it. If you did, perhaps you'd like to contribute a small monetary sign of appreciation, either by becoming a regular supporter from as little as $3 per month using the link in the show notes, or if you're listening on a Value for Value enabled app, such as Fountain, Truefans or Podverse, feel free to send a few sats my way. I also occasionally promote products that I personally use, so please use the affiliate link where relevant if you are buying from those fine companies.