Douglas Robbins – from nomad to novelist

Dealing with personal loss, embarking on a nomadic lifestyle, and ultimately finding solace and purpose through writing.
For author Douglas Robbins the journey to creativity was anything but conventional.
In this episode I chat with Douglas about his early creative influences, including his mother's theatrical background and his own musical experiences, and the cathartic nature of Douglas' travels across the United States, working various jobs to sustain his adventurous spirit while also taking college classes along the way.
Douglas reflects on the significance of making conscious choices in life and how his experiences have fuelled his philosophical and socially conscious writing.
Now settled in New York with his family, Douglas continues to explore deep themes in his work, ranging from philosophical sci-fi to social commentary. He also shares his plans to transition fully into writing and coaching other writers, emphasising the importance of living a meaningful life and helping others find their voices.
Join us as we explore Douglas's unique journey, the emotional impact of his writing, and his aspirations for the future.

"We want to be seen, but we have to see ourselves first."

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Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
Artworks: Emily Portnoi emilyportnoi.co.uk
Photo: Ella Pallet

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Transcript

>> Douglas Robbins: 0:38

I was looking for something. You know, people kept asking me, like, what are you running from? My answer was always, I'm running to. I'm not running from, what is this life about? You know, when my mother died, it was. It was a very dark period for me, and it was pulling me in, into the darkness. I didn't know she was so ill. And so I, uh, think just that part of me was doing this to sort of survive in a way. You do what you got to do, and then sometimes you get stuck there, though. It's that thing inside of us that's calling. Yeah, I could stay at this cushy thing and just, you know, ride it out till I retire. And it's like, but what? That's not the point of life. The point of life is to find that meaning and to serve others and to bring your gifts, these divine gifts, forward.

>> Clare: 1:28

Hi, I'm Clare, founder of creativity found a community for creative learners and educators, connecting adults who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and crafters who can help them do so with workshops, courses, online events, and kits. For this podcast, I chat with people who have found or refound their creativity as, uh, adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practises they now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two. We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits and how their creative lives, in which they're practical, necessary, everyday lives. For this episode, I'm chatting with Douglas Robbins. Hi, Douglas.

>> Douglas Robbins: 2:21

How are you? I am well, Claire. How about yourself? I'm very good, thank you. Can you start by telling me about what it is you do creatively? Now, I'm a professional writer, so I write fiction. I also write blogs, and I'm working on some non fiction works as well about more social commentary. But I have a second book coming out in my Narracon series, which is a, uh, sort of a philosophical Sci-Fi if you will, gets into a little deeper stuff than some Sci-Fi might. And then I also have another book, a fictional piece about Native Americans, about thanksgiving. So I often write about kind of the more philosophical or spiritual and then also the more social commentary. Hopefully I can get these two books out in the next few months, but sometimes they're slower going than you want. Brilliant. We'll talk more about the style and the content a bit later. Tell me, when you were younger, were creative pursuits, whether writing or otherwise, were they encouraged in you as a child? By your family or in your education? Yeah, um, more probably my family. I was thinking about this. So my mother was a singer actress and probably could have gone further, but chose to have a family and probably a tough decision. Uh, she still did it. She still did what they call off Broadway theatre, still sang in some reviews and whatnot. Every morning I would pretty much wake up to her singing and doing scales and it was really beautiful. So I have a lot of them in my memory seared into my memory. So I was always around theatre in that regard. I was always hanging out with friends from the theatre and they would break into song. And then I also played trumpet as a kid. I'm not sure why exactly. My father's father was at times a professional jazz saxophonist earlier in his life and his brother was as well. So maybe I was just sort of in my genes or in my blood. Not so much writing, but I had always been sort of, uh, observant. And then somewhere in high school, I started playing drums and writing lyrics for the band. And we never made out of my bedroom, the band, but, you know, we had a few originals, neighbourhood, uh, originals. So I guess just being around kind of a theatre family and just, um, my father would always play jazz records growing up and had some sort of influence on me. School, not so much as far as creativity. It was a pretty large school. It was just more of a production line. But I think, you know, I did play some trumpet. I even went to music, um, camp for a year or two. I mostly played ping pong at the camp because I didn't go to too many classes. But, um, yeah, it was definitely around creativity. Yeah. Yeah. So what was your experience of at school then and did you go into further education? I have a, uh, bachelor's degree and it took me many years to get. I was never much for school. I didn't feel. Didn't feel like it really developed someone. I felt like there was always. They were trying to pull something over on me. In some ways, probably this rebellious side of me that was sort of rejecting the norm, if you will, kind of grow up as that rock and roll guy, you know, long, uh, hair and kind of rebellious attitude. So school and I didn't really see eye to eye very well. I did eventually get my bachelor's degree, but it wasn't until I was 30 that I got in probably after six or seven different colleges. I was kind of nomadic for many years and so I would just take a few classes and, you know, kind of move on a year or so later and uh, eventually I was like, you know, knucklehead, you should probably get your degree. So I eventually got it in English or creative writing. Okay, I'll be interested to hear about the nomadic lifestyle and how that eventually came about. So if you didn't get. Because lots of the guests I speak to from the states go straight to college, and it seems like quite an expected path. So you obviously didn't do that. What did you do? So I did go right out of high school. I went to a college, uh, up in Maine. But it was a. Let's just say we had some trouble there. It was a very, very conservative school. I didn't know that. Very small conservative. It sounded exotic to me, you know, being in Maine and just sort of the nature, and it was, you know, a lot of nature, uh, which was wonderful, but very conservative place. So that didn't jive. I was long hair guy and from New York, and so after that year, I kind of took some time and just was working. And my mother was sick with cancer at this time and eventually died, uh, when I was 20. So my father, just to give you the background a little bit, they were supposed to move to Florida to sort of get her out of the New York weather and get her close to the beach, and hopefully she could rehabilitate and heal. Um, she did not heal. She died in New York a couple weeks before they were supposed to move. So the house was under contract, so they couldn't get out of that. And the Florida, uh, house was under contract, meaning had to move. So, long story short, went with my father down there for a little bit, and I just kind of needed to leave. I needed to get away from it. And so I just kind of hopped on the road and ended up in Washington state, all the way across, diagonally across the country, and just kind of following the impulse, I guess. Probably no real rhyme or reason. Just needed to get as far away from everything as they could, and, you know, went there, and beautiful out there, the Cascade mountains and Puget Sound, and really stunning out there, uh, the San Juan islands, and just started writing a little bit more and more, just observations about things and people and events, and started journaling this a little bit. But, yeah, so it was just kind of nomadic, just like nothing. I didn't feel anchored anywhere. I didn't feel anchored in myself. And so just kind of kept going. You know, I went there, and then I went, you know, briefly to New Mexico and then up to Colorado and all over the place. And I think somewhere along those lines, not that it's that. That relevant? You know, oh, I should just keep taking classes. And eventually I was like, I eventually moved back to New York, where I live. So I was like, all, uh, right, let me just finish this darn thing. I've been doing this on and off for years, so really it was. I was on, like, the ten year plan, if you will. How were you earning money to eat and sleep during this? No money. Good question. Um, I think I just worked random jobs. I was a bartender in one place, I was a bar. Back in another, I was waiting tables. I worked, um, for New York state for a little bit as a temp, whatever. None of the jobs mattered. It was just. I was a valet parker. Worked in a hotel for a bit. You know, they just. There were just jobs. They were just a, uh, means to an end, and it was really just enough to pay the bills and do whatever. So were you enjoying that lifestyle? Were you doing those jobs so that you could travel because you wanted to travel? I mean, obviously you had to do those jobs to be able to, like, I say, yeah, and sleep. But do you have any feeling on why you felt the need to travel around? I think I have, uh, an adventurous soul, so I think it was sort of. I think we're all explorers at heart, if we allow ourselves to be in one way or another. So I just feel like now is the time, you know, let me go. I always loved road trips and just kind of hopping in the car or motorcycle or whatever it might be, and, um, just going. So it was more just out of intrigue, and I wasn't really going to college in a traditional sense. I would just take a class or two wherever and move on six or eight months or a year later or whatever it is. And I was looking for something. People kept asking me, what are you running from? My answer was always, I'm running to. I'm not running from. And I think I was just looking for answers to, what is this life about? When my mother died, it was. It was a very dark period for me, and it was pulling me in. Into the darkness. And I didn't know she was so ill. And so, uh, I think just that part of me was doing this to sort of survive in a way. Or like, kind of live to the fullest. Yes. It was a sort of a therapy, you know, being on the road. It's very cathartic. And, you know, what is the rolling Stone? Leaves no moss or no rock. It gathers no moss. No gathers, no gathers. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe there was something to that. You know, just. Just moving, being flowing and, uh, not getting trapped into anything. But, you know, it's such an awakening when you. When you're on the road and you meet so many interesting people. Like we were discussing before the show, I mean, when you put yourself out there, that's where you get to meet all sorts of people. And it's really eye opening some of the things that I did experience and, you know, you can read about someone landing on the moon, but you still don't know what it is to land on the moon. Uh, and so it was just kind of going and had, uh, a little hatchback, little Honda, which got amazing gas mileage, you know, slow car, but it got amazing gas miles, uh, a little tent, and would just go. Yeah. So tell me a bit about the classes as well. Were they on a theme? I love the idea about doing different classes just as. And when I always look at the, um, brochures when they come from the community colleges and. That looks interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Were you taking classes that, uh, just piqued your interest, or did you find that you were drawn to particular classes? I know you ended up with creative writing at the end. Was it all that way? No. I mean, some of it was astronomy, some history classes, for sure. That was probably the minor. I think it was just things of interest. And, um, you know, and now that I'm thinking about it, like, you know, as a kid, you don't have any choice or. I did not have choice in the college, in school, right? This is what you learn. This is what you take. Shut up and do it and follow the curriculum and do good and whatever. Get a good job. But when you're on the road, you get to choose, am I going left or right? Do I want to take a class or not? And, um, it's amazing because, you know, this. This is life, right? This is the beauty. This is a freedom that we all crave. You know, we often get stuck in kind of conventional life or jobs or whatever, and we don't really get to control our time as much. And I was able to kind of dictate what I was doing. And so that was really it. It was like, what am I interested in? What do I care about? And so let's take an astronomy class or this class on, um, you know, world war two. And that was a gift to me, that I got to have the choice to do that and got to have the choice of going places and going to Colorado or going to Michigan or going, you know, going to New Mexico. Uh, at the time, I was like, it's too hot and dry here. I don't, I don't want to live here. So it's like, I like lush places. So I went, you know, back to, because Washington is a very lush place. I was like, no, I need the water. I need the trees. And so, my goodness, what a gift that was to have that choice and to just go, yeah. Um, that's quite interesting with taking the classes that you're interested in, because oftentimes if you go on a traditional college trajectory, it'll be. It's because I want to do this. So I have to take these classes because I want to be a lawyer or this or the other. But it's lovely to have that opportunity to do the class. Because you like the idea of the class. Yeah. So you've talked about, in a way, this quite romantic lifestyle of travelling around and going to the places that you want to go to. But you've also told me that you are settled now and you're in New York now. So when did that change? And why did that change happen? When did you stop travelling? Yeah. So, you know, I grew up in New York, right outside of the city. We now, um, I'm married now about 2 hours north of the city, kind of just outside the Catskill Mountains. So when I came back to New York, which was I was 28 or thereabouts, I decided, you know, look, I'm so far along with all these credits, I might as well get my degree. So I went to Suny Albany and was able to get in. And so then I had two years of more conventional classes and whatnot. Then after that, I said, you know, I've been writing these books. And I think I mentioned, you know, when we'd spoken previously about this book named dawn that I had been working on. It was more of an homage to my mother and, but also about young love. And I said, you know, I'm going to move to New York City. So I think the nomadic portion, I mean, I love road trips, but moving, you know, especially when you're married with kids, is not, uh, so wise or easy to do. So, yeah, moved to the city when I was 30. You know, had been riding on and off, had left the city at some point. And about twelve or so years ago, a woman that I knew, who I met randomly happened to say, oh, you should reach out to this woman, Jennifer. She can help market your books. That had, uh, a couple books out at that point, I was like, okay, that's nice. So I eventually spoke to her and I could give you a long story, this kind of crazy story, how we met, but just was immediately in love with her and she had actually had kids and I had always thought like, why would anybody marry someone with kids? Like, well, because you're madly in love with someone, that's why. Um, and so, yeah, so we married a number of years ago and so yeah, got married and came up into the um, Catskill Mountain area and kind of settled down a bit. Oh, uh, that's very sweet that it was involved with the books that you met your now wife. So talking about the books, you briefly mentioned that you'd written some books. How were those books being received by other people? Were you instantly like publishing these books? What was happening there? Yeah, I mean, obviously you get some nice response, you know, look, it's like anything, you have to get the right book into the right hands. So that's half the battle with writing books or marketing is getting it into the right hands. Uh, but no, I'm in my last book, uh, baseball Dreams and bikers, which is really about the dreams that we all have within. It's not really about baseball or biker so much as those dreams that we have within that we often don't honour because of fears or doubts or the negative voices in our heads. And we all need some guidance sometimes to keep us on that path and we don't know we're getting off the path. But no, I've gotten a lot of nice reviews. Um, you uh, could find myself on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, whatever. But yeah, so some nice reviews, uh, you know, obviously want, would like to get out more and get, you know, the book into more hands. But it's nice when people reach out to me and say, hey, this, this really meant a lot to me. Where one woman was crying, she, she had reached out to me. Uh, so this like was so meaningful to me and what happened in my own life. So you know, that's, that's just, it really touches the heart, obviously. And you go, okay, I'm on the right path here. And having a done all your travelling and all your odd jobs, so to speak. What do you then do when you settle and uh, you probably need to get a proper job and then to be able to write as well, to give you the time to write as well. So what did you go into? Well, I don't like admitting it, but I will admit it here with you, Claire. So I had at one point I was living loan and needed a job and the landlord, so I was just renting the landlord happened to be an insurance agent, and he's like, well, I could probably get you a job as an adjuster with this one company. So I was like, uh, okay. You know, like, I need the money, but, like, do I really want to do that? Um, so I did that because, you know, and it was so strange, because the first day I went in there, it was so opposite of anything I would ever think I would be doing, not in a million years type of thing. So I go into this office, huge, you know, floor of cubicles with a thousand fluorescent lights and a thousand cubicles, and I have my silly little button down shirt on and my little tie. I'm like, what the hell am I doing here? But it was like, all right, you know, when you travel so much and then you're in certain places, it's not always easy to get decent jobs. And so, uh, before this, I had been working in, like, in a warehouse, like, on concrete floor, just a production kind of warehouse, and making, like, peanuts. I was like, look, I got it. I have to make more money than this. It was the most money I'd ever made. They gave me a car. They gave me benefits, all this stuff. And that's wonderful. And it was very helpful. I'm actually leaving the industry in the next few weeks. Don't tell my boss. It's a different company I work for now, but which is cushy. There's plenty of time for writing and other things, but it still just doesn't sit right with me. And I'm 53, and I'm like, I, uh, have to make this shift. I have to make this change. And though I make some money with the writing, it's not enough. And, uh, I'm a podcaster as well. It's like, all right, I have to make a full commitment and really step into this and really own this, because, look, I'm 53. It doesn't last forever. So, yeah, it had been insurance, you know? And sometimes you do what you got to do, and then sometimes you get stuck there, though, and you don't mean to get stuck there. So I've been in this industry for over ten years, right? Once I got with, you know, my wife and the kids, and it's like, I got to do something that's more stable and pays the best, you know, I can find right now. And I think we're in a good enough place to transition, so I can just fully, fully focus on the writing, but also not just the writing. It's just living a more meaningful life, you know, living, you know, like, it's this. This thing that we all have inside of us. And that's kind of what that baseball James the biker is book is. It's that thing inside of us that's calling. Yeah, I could stay at this cushy thing and just, you know, ride it out until I retire, and then it's like. But what? That's not the point of life. Point of life is to find that meaning and to serve others and to bring your gifts, these divine gifts, forward. So, hopefully I can do that a little better, uh, soon. But, shh. Don't tell anyone. You're lucky, because it's going to take me a while to get around to editing this. I figured. So, anyway, all good. You'll be safe by then. So how do you do that, then? Not the actual logistics of stopping work, but I mean, what you were saying about, uh, living a life and helping others and having meaning and how does writing help you do that? And how does writing help you help others? You know, I think part of the impetus for me in writing is, yes, to reveal things, to pull back the, um, curtain. But I think much of what my writing is, is about the voiceless. I think I often write because maybe, uh, when I was younger, I felt like I did not have a voice or a say. And I think just revealing. We're all. Yes, we're different, but we're all ultimately the same. We want love and happiness and safety and enough money to do the things we want to do. And we want laughter and camaraderie. We want to be seen, but we have to see ourselves first. We have to allow ourselves to be seen by ourselves instead of those fears that go, no, be quiet. You don't want to do that. You're going to get hurt. The only thing that's hurting us is that fear or that belief in general. I mean, obviously, it could be in a physical situation or something. So I want to read things that a possibly I escape, and I'm entertained. But also, that's a mirror to me. What turns the pages are emotion. What turns the page or what's going to happen to this person. Oh, my God. You know, like, you can put yourself in that situation. So with the baseball dreams and bikers book, it's about those dreams. It's about that person that we're trying to be. And all this crap gets in our way. These thoughts, these emotions, beliefs, you know, or just the familiar of, I haven't done it, how can I do it? So that is, I feel like my responsibility, just that's my little piece. You know, you have your peace. Everyone has their peace. If we all brought it forward, it would transform the world. But often fear and divisiveness kind of is controlling things. The media, etcetera. That, to me, is what I'm about, is, uh, sort of getting at those deeper challenges. Sacrifice, community, camaraderie, all these things that we all need. We can't do it alone. We can't do these things alone. And so it's a terrible place not to get off track, but I felt very isolated, uh, in life. Quite often not connected where I want to be connected. Not feeling that joy or that ease because I'm doing something I love. Often it's the opposite. You feel stuck and stilted and frustrated because you're not flowing. And so I just feel like, you know, it's so important that we honour this piece of ourselves. This is the greatest gift we could bring forward. So whatever that is, for me, it's bringing what I bring forward, and for you, it's bringing what you bring forward. And this is where strangers become friends. Absolutely. So tell me about kind of how you do that in respect of your style of writing and the content that you write. Because you've mentioned at the very beginning a number of different, uh, styles and types of writing. So tell me a bit more about those. Well, Claire, my style used to be much more just direct. I think this. This is an observation about law or justice or whatever it might be. Boom. Here's my opinion. But my opinion is usually based in morality. It's based in justice. It's based in concern for people. That is probably what drives me. Behind all things is a justice of some sort. But, you know, writing is craft. I mean, it's craft. And it's like, okay, what am I trying to say in this scene? What is the point of this scene? So, for instance, a, uh, recurring character in the Sci-Fi piece. So it's more than Sci-Fi but whatever, we'll leave it at that. His name is tanz. T a n zt. He's the accountant. But what that really means is he's the seer. He sees things and accounts for things. But he's suffering a little. He's suffering loneliness. Even though he's with this younger character. He's suffering because he longs for the family that was lost when the planet they were on was killed, uh, or the people around him. He longs for this recent woman who he met. So we all have this longing, right, of love. And so that is becoming a bit of a wedge between them because he doesn't want to be on these sort of missions, if you will, any longer. He wants to find love and sort of a simpler existence. So everything is revealed in the human condition. So all, all the ideas are what people struggle with and, um, the challenges they have and the hopes that they have, the joys that they have. So that's kind of it. I'm not sure if I've answered your question exactly, but, you know, stories are often just come from where, like, wouldn't it be interesting if. But you know, there's so much within us that wants to come out and it's not the conscious brain, it's sort of the subconscious where we store everything and that's where all those emotions are and those things we're connected to and those, the things that were, that are so much broader than the conscious mind. No, I do completely understand. And yes, you did answer my question in the first place. I really got better understanding and that led me on to what I'm going to ask you now, just as a kind of last question before we get on to future and, uh, contacting was, when you are creating these characters and these situations that communicate something, how does that affect you personally or emotionally? Do you get those kind of emotions and moods when you're in this work? Yeah, it affects me deeply because it's a mirror. Typically. I feel like if you're writing it well, if you're writing evocative material, emotional material, then yes, when I read my own stuff, it'll choke me off. Oh, it's not about you. Well, it is, obviously. It's about everyone who has experienced that feeling, that emotion, and then the opposite. When they get their chance in the light or in the sun, and they get their chance of redemption, uh, and they get their chance of being seen and honoured, that equally affects me because that's also a part of me. I never had that. So, yes, it will affect me. Um, very much. Yeah. Ah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant. I thought it's much. Tell me, um, other than leaving your job, what then are you thinking aspirationally in the future, near or far? So, um, partly I'm leaving. I'm going to be coaching a writing group or a few writing groups. So that'll be really nice. I've done that a little bit for the last few weeks. I really enjoy helping other writers, you know, doing that. You can certainly just to throw it out there. Jennifer Dawncoaching.com it's actually, my wife is a business coach, but also is doing this because she's a writer as well, has a new book out herself, a nonfiction book about business. And when you kind of lose sight of why you're even in it, you know, kind of when you lose the joy in for your business and, uh, refinding it. So I'm doing that a bit, you know, I just feel like I need to, let's say you eliminate all lies, all lies that you tell yourself, okay? All lies that you tell yourself, okay? Uh, as far as what you should do or not do in life, you're only left with the truth. And the truth is that essence that need to bring that information that you have forward. And it's easy for us to give power away to others. They know better. They control, they dictate. And so I just feel like I'm going to be doubling down, if you will, on myself, because all the other stuff is a lie. Crikey. Yes. That's, um, that's a lot to be thinking about there for someone who hasn't thought about it that way before. Um, how can people connect with you directly? Find your books, etcetera. Uh, yeah, like I said, you can find me on Amazon or Barnes, uh, and noble or kobo or wherever. And then, uh, my podcast is called the Douglas Robbins show, and it really just tackles a lot of these, these things. Mental health, uh, as well, how we're living, writing, and everything under the sun. And then, yeah, you can find me@douglasrobbinsauthor.com. dot if you go to my website, you could fill out the little form with the email, and you get a book. Uh, you get a story called Barbecue dinner, which, um, is such a touching story to me. Kind of love and redemption and unconditional love. So I will leave it at that. Oh, brilliant. Thank you so much for speaking with me today, Douglas. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. This has been a pleasure being with you. Thank you.

>> Clare: 32:56

Thanks so much for listening to creativity found. I hope you enjoyed this episode and gained some value from it. If you did, perhaps you'd like to contribute a small monetary sign of appreciation, either by becoming a regular supporter from as little as$3 per month using the link in the show notes, or if you are listening on a value for value enabled app such as fountain, truefans or Podverse, feel free to send a few sats my way. I also occasionally promote products that I personally use, so please use the affiliate link where relevant if you are buying from those fine companies.

>> Douglas Robbins: 33:33

Thanks so much.

>> Clare: 33:34

I really appreciate it.