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Support the show here
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Join the Creativity Found Collective here
For this episode, I'm speaking with music producer, songwriter and campaigner for the unheard in the music industry. Eve horn. Eve has been on world tours with two girl bands, but has also struggled with depression, ill health and a loss of identity. Let's find out more. I Eve Hello. Hi. Now you have had a rollercoaster creative journey in out and happily back in again. Tell me what you do now.
Unknown:Okay, so now I run peak music UK. So I'm the founder of peak music UK. And I'm also the founder of the We Are The unheard campaign, which is a campaign for the equality of women in the music industry. I'm also a singer, songwriter and producer and a mom of a two and a half year old.
Claire Waite Brown:Amazing. Okay, let's start with your family life as a child, where music and the arts generally a part of that. And as a youngster, did you want music to be in your future?
Unknown:So yes, very much so. So my nan was Irish and my granddad was Scottish. So we always had Celtic music in the house. If we got to Milan and granddad's You know, it would always be a mixture between Celtic or Frank Sinatra and things like that. We grew up on it. And then my mom loved reggae and loves rock. So every Sunday, we would her, myself or my sister would get all the records out and sing and dance, you know. And that was just amazing. And I remember realising that music was affecting me physically. So when I heard songs that I liked, it would affect my stomach and give me butterflies and I just get this overwhelming feeling that I couldn't explain. But you know, it's just all encompassing, you know, and I loved it. And that was from a very young age. So yeah, I always wanted I think from as young as six or seven, I envisaged being on the stage. And, you know, I remember one of the things that I love doing first thing every morning was getting my VHS tape, putting it in and recording MTV or you know, Music Television when it first came out, and just recording all of my favourite stuff. And it was the same with my tape player. So when the radio, I'd hear the radio and you know, the DJ would talk over the song and they would dip it in either or you'd have to wait for it to come around all again and try and find your song and you'd be ready with the record button. And then God forbid your tape chewed up but you'd have to get the scissors out and the pencil one. screwdriver, get your knife on. unscrew it. Little bit of sellotape. Yeah, those are the good old days, right. Wow, I
Claire Waite Brown:never went that far. I could use a pencil too. Why is this tape back it again, not the kid editing set.
Unknown:Yes, I would unscrew it, lay everything out yet. Get the tape and then then you'd like to cut. Try and save as much as you can cut the ends off. Get a little bit set a tape cut it so equal, it didn't affect the real. Yeah, stick it both sides. Place it back in nicely, you know, all back together. Lovely. You might have a little gap in the song but you know that
Claire Waite Brown:this is gonna make so much sense and become so relevant later on in this chat. So You went to the Brit school in its early days? How did that come about? And what was the experience like,
Unknown:from those early days, I just continued to just love singing. And it was something that I realised was within me. And at the time I was going to a Catholic school because we're a Catholic family. And the Brit school opened in 1991. And a friend of mine had a prospectus and told me about it, and I just got into my first year of secondary school. And I was like, Oh, my God, I need to go to this place. You know, it just looked like the Garden of Eden in my mind, you know, I mean, like, Alright, that's a bit drastic, but let me liken it to Disneyland. The Disneyland of music. That's what it looked like to me. And I just had to be there. So I asked my mom, and obviously, there was a bit of, you know, it's not a Catholic school. And then my mom asked my grandparents, and, you know, they were like, they agreed, you know, I was great academically, but I got very bored. And I would just start messing about because I didn't learn the same way other people learn. Obviously, I realised that now but then you don't. So I went to the Brit school when I was 13. And it just first opened, and I was like, amazing. But then I realised there was a different side of it, which was, everyone is like me now. We're all you know, I mean, so you go from being the one who is the odd one out because you're a bit different. And you want different things to being in a space where everyone wants the same thing. And then there's this whole competition element that I just wasn't ready for. And I don't like any I'm just not that type of person. So that affected me. But what an amazing experience the Brits was for me. We had a gospel choir, I did dance. I did theatre, I did art. I learnt drums. I was learning like computers for the first time as well. Oh, it's just brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown:Yeah, it sounds great fun. It sounds like something I would have loved to have done myself. Yeah. And partly because of that, at a young age, you had success and a lifestyle that perhaps most people don't experience. Or tell me about those times. You know, what happened after school?
Unknown:Yeah, so I had to leave the Brits a year early. Because you can you can almost go into it's like, you start at 13, I think. And then you can go up to 18. So you can go on to do a levels and stuff. So I did. I started my first year and did a level a level. Liechtenstein I think I chose. Brilliant, loves him. And then yeah, a friend of mine who I had told about the school had come and got in and they had the girl group, and we had our girl group, and we've done performances at Fairfield halls and things like that. And they were looking to get signed, and I'd been recording in the studio and doing an album. And then one of the girls had left. One of the girls in the group has been my friend prior to the Brits. So she asked me to join. And so yeah, we we went and recorded an album in Metropolis studios and all these other amazing studios, back in the day, and then got signed to Polydor. I was 18 years old. And I was in this massive record company office signing a contract with a glass of champagne. very surreal. But yeah, it was just it's what I'd always envisaged.
Claire Waite Brown:And then what did that entail? Once you've signed the deal? What did you then have to do?
Unknown:So then we went on many tours. So we told the Backstreet Boys, we told the boys own Peter Andre. We did Radio One roadshow, which is all up and down the UK, we performed at Wembley, obviously with with the big groups. We were lucky enough to do like seeing Backstreet Boys backings on stage every time they're on stage. Because you get to know them, you know, you, you you're touring with them, and you're performing every night together, and eating together backstage and stuff. So we really had fun and they were like, yeah, you can do our vocals while we're on stage. And we do harmonies and stuff in the background. And it was great. You know, we it was the best experience. It had its bad moments. But all in all, it was it was something that was just amazing to experience and I'm super grateful I did.
Claire Waite Brown:You said it had Is it bad moments? Yeah. Are you open to sharing some of the downsides of it?
Unknown:Yeah, so the downside of it were exhaustion rivalry my first girl group because after I signed to Polydor, I joined another girl group, and we were signed to EMI in Denmark. But you know, in the first go group, there was bullying, massive, massive bullying and it. It took me years to recover. I used to have nightmares. And I remember my mom saying just leave, just leave, you know, it's not helping you that it's not healthy. And I knew even at that young age that my foot was in the door. And if I left, I wouldn't be able to get back in. So I was like, I have to wait for the right moment, hoping that it would change or whatever. But I knew I just I couldn't leave. But yeah, and it's exhausting. You know, you're flying constantly. You you as soon as you get off the plane, you've got people that want to interview you in the airport, you get in a car, you get taken to a hotel, there's fans outside, there's record company, people that you have to meet. So you have to sign autographs, put your stuff down, and you have to go for dinner with the record label people in that country, then you might have to go and do a soundcheck for the shows that you're doing, then you would go and perform and if you're doing a promo tour, you might have clubs that you need to go and promote at so then you don't finish there till like one two in the morning. And then you're up at four or five to do early morning TV or radio. So promo tours are gruesome. Absolutely exhausting. But, you know, it's a double edged sword as gruesome as they are, as they are equally as amazing and mesmerising and fantastic. And an experience that you can't really explain to someone unless they've been through it. Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown:You mentioned the second group and being in Denmark. Yes. Tell me why the change? And how was the second banded hat? Maybe How was it different from the first.
Unknown:So the change came because our management at the time managed other acts. And there was an act, a solo act, who hadn't had the experience we had yet of performing in big arenas. And she was just about to do this. By going on a tour with loads of other acts. We weren't doing much at the time, we've done our album, I think we released a single book, a&r guys had changed, and the new a&r was struggling to know what to do with us. So we were kind of like on a lull at the time, not really doing much. So I was like, Oh, I'm happy to go on tour with her and show her the ropes. So I ended up going on tour with a UK tour with her. And we were at soundcheck on the first night, and she was on stage. And I was like just saying, Oh, you know, this is how you kind of work the stage in arenas, you know, you have to kind of engage both sides. And in the middle and times, you have to hold back a little bit, you know, so that people can hear the performance, just standard tips. So someone had come out, as I was, you know, giving her these things. I didn't realise at the time. So we've watched the show. It's brilliant. And, oh, I forgot to mention, so let me scroll back a little bit. While I'm in this other girl group, um, you know, the rule is go groups, hago groups. At the time, we were around eternal people like that. And it was just a thing. I don't know why they were great women. But that was just the thing you did or don't like that don't like that. I'm in my front room, looking at the TV watching my music videos, as always, and this group comes on, and I really like them. You know, because I love my 90s r&b and they reminded me of that, and I got the butterfly thing in my stomach. Love them. And I was like, I really did not know who they were. Anyway, fast forward. I'm watching the show. This girl group comes on stage, and it's there. And I was like, the penny drops as Oh my God, that's those, you know, that are amazing. So I was almost like, all in all as well. So we go backstage, and I'm like, I need to tell them how good that show was. Because it was brilliant. They'd use amazing samples from wicked hip hop songs and stuff. And I was Oh, yes. So we went backstage just to congratulate them. And one of the girls had come out and thought when we were doing the soundcheck and and thought that I was her manager, so I was like, No, no, I'm just a friend. And so we just became friends. We, from then on every night we sang together, you know, we beat each other up in interviews throughout the tour, and we just became really good friends. Then one night, they come to me saying that one of the girls in their group wants to leave. And they want me to join me and I thought I was like I'm in this group and I was I'm fiercely loyal. As unhappy as I was. I'm still fiercely loyal and So I basically said to my management, long story short, I've been asked by this girl group to join them, but don't tell the girls because I haven't made my mind up yet. I just wanted you to know. Okay, so that was that fast forward, we go on another tour with this artist, my old girl group. And they've been really nice, overly nice for the first time in four years, like, like, and I'm like, what's going on? Why they being so nice to me, like, I couldn't understand it. Anyway, we get back to the UK. And I'm called to a meeting with their moms. And it turns out, my managers had told them, and then I got basically bullied into, you know, you can't leave bla bla bla, this is the moms as well. So not only have I had to deal with all of the crap that I was getting given because the last member left, and I was getting all the stuff from that. I then was getting put in the situation. And it was that moment, I thought, if you have to be nice to me, just because you realise someone else wants me. That's just, that's wrong. And it was then I kind of had the lightbulb moment that I'm going this was my moment that I could change my situation. Yeah. I spoke to my lawyers, my lawyers that said that my managers were in breach of contract. And I just, I didn't want anything I just wanted to leave because he was telling me all this other stuff I could do. And I'm just like, I just want to go. So the the Monday I spoke to my lawyers, the Saturday I was on a plane flying to Denmark with a champagne breakfast, having absolutely no clue what I was doing at the age of 21. And lo and behold, I got in, I joined the group. And it was it was amazing. That was a completely different style of music. But we were lucky enough to have a Christmas single that went to number one, and is still the most played Christmas song in them or maybe 20 years later. Yeah. Yeah, in front of them. Was was George Michaels. Song last Christmas last Christmas.
Claire Waite Brown:Yay. Amazing. So they were obviously happier times in this second band, but it didn't last forever. Why did that come to an end?
Unknown:So from from the beginning, you know, it was obvious that one of the girls in the group wanted to go solo. And it wasn't a secret. We had gone through some managers and at all agreed that we'll check out these managers. And if we're not happy, we just call it quits. So that happened, we weren't happy. We called it quits. I had the horrible choice of do I stay in Denmark? Or do I move back to the UK, it was a heartbreaking choice because I'd made this new life with all these friends, you know, and I felt at home. And then I had to come back to the UK where no one really knew what I was doing the last few years because we were touring in Asia and everything. And also because I'd got a little bit more fame, you know, people's opinions of me are changed and just what happens with the territory. So in the end, though, I did come back to the UK because I had my flat and if I stayed I would have lost it. So it was a lot of other factors. My Nan and granddad I wanted to make sure I came home because they were getting older. And it was then that I flew back to UK and got smacked bang in the face with depression. Hit me. So I did not know what was happening. Had no idea. And yeah, it was horrible.
Claire Waite Brown:With that instantly on coming back to the UK because obviously you said you had family to come back to but presumably not a lifestyle to come back to or job to come back to. Was that all a part of it?
Unknown:Yeah. Yeah. So what had happened is my identity as I knew it, was being an artist, being on stage performing touring. I'd gone straight from school to doing that. You know, it was my dream that I was living and it had stopped gone from being on gmtv to having to pay to get on a bus and I know that sounds so bad, but I remember feeling like such a failure and not wanting anyone to see me. And I spiralled and spiralled, and it was about the year 2000. And depression wasn't really a thing then, you know, it wasn't spoke about it wasn't known as much as it is now. So I would get the normal comments like you know, think of other people that are worse off frustration and may be like, You're making me worse. I didn't know who I was. And I didn't know what was happening to me either. So I did my bit. I was like, Okay, I decorated my flat, the same colours as in Denmark, I went to the gym, I went to the doctors who put me on antidepressants. And I went for about three different ones because I was like, I'm going to the gym and I'm yawning, like 20 times in a minute. I'm like, feel like I'm falling asleep. I enrolled for four courses, like music because I was like, Okay, I realised I don't like the fame side of the industry. Because anytime I was like, not in the mood, and I don't, why are they staring at us forgetting I've just been on morning television. And people were not recognising me and wanted my autograph. And I'm not, I'm just like, I'm not in the mood. And so that was really hard for me to put the face on and smile and pretend and take the photo. And I didn't like it. But I love performing and stuff like that. So I came home and I enrolled in university to be a sound engineer, all whilst having depression and stuff, I'm still having a loss of identity and trying to grapple anything I could hold on to, to who I was,
Claire Waite Brown:yeah. did go into university and reconnecting with music that you love, but in a slightly different way. Did that help with how you were feeling?
Unknown:So it did, it really kind of helped me to, I guess, get my teeth into something else and distract me slightly from what was going on. But what happened is I ended up having a like a love hate relationship. I almost couldn't talk about what I had just gone through one because it was painful, because I wasn't doing it anymore. And too, because I didn't want to seem like a show off. You know, blow my own trumpet. So but by going to uni and learning the other side, I felt underneath that I was strengthening myself and broadening my tool pool, which is something that I like to say in my lessons now when I teach people because it's so important, because there are many facets to the music industry. And so by doing this, I knew later on down the line, whatever happened, these are tools I would have for life. And it so happened at university, there was only six women in the whole year. And I was one of them. And I was the only one of colour of the students. And it was there that I did my dissertation on the lack of female sound engineers in the music industry. And that's kind of when the pin dropped or the penny dropped or whatever about the different sides of the music industry because I'd obviously only seen it from an artist side and was only ever interested in it from that. But this really opened my eyes to the other side. And then so when I graduated from uni, myself and one of the other girls, we went to the Prince's Trust to get funding to build a studio in village in the Royal Arsenal, which is where I'm from one because I wanted to support underprivileged young kids. And because there's nothing in my area, which is why I had to travel to an off hours to the Brit school and back every day. And the other one was to promote female producers. So we built our studio. And with that in mind, and we ran that for five years, we won. As you can see, there is a National Business Awards cool prize in London, and that is now that's an enterprise in London award. And that was a National Business Award for the work we did. And behind that is my graduation picture. So yeah, I realised then that I want to start kind of raising awareness and supporting people or mentoring young people and I really got a feel for for that because I realised that just there's such a massive hole back then that you know, no one was doing it. So I put all my energy and focus onto that while still trying to struggle with with my own stuff.
Claire Waite Brown:Yeah. And we know that you are doing a lot more of that now, but there was a bit of a period in between. Something something completely different. I love sharing my guests stories with you, podcasting isn't cheap. There are hosting fees and software costs, tech to buy and time to invest in planning and editing to make sure the guests sound great and listeners hear the best content. If you would like to financially support creativity found, please visit K, hyphen f fi.com. Slash creativity found podcast. It's not as funny as we're making it out to be. So tell me about that in between time, tell me about what happened to you, and how you how you tried to direct your life at that time before you were then luckily able to come back to the wonderful music that you do now.
Unknown:Okay, so yeah, it's been such a crazy journey. So we had the studio, and unfortunately, my business partners mom passed away. And we had been running the studio and the business for about five years doing absolutely everything from our own website design to our funding applications to running 18 hour days recording sessions to, you know, you name it everything. And we were a bit exhausted with work with schools with councils. And that I think, just kind of did it for her, and she didn't really want to do it anymore. And what had happened is we used to always bring our computer to an apple store to get it fixed if something was wrong, and they ended up having vague vacancies there. So we both applied for a part time role. And long story short, we got them, I became an expert at Apple and she became a genius. And I was there for about for about five years, I think. I think it was about five years. And while this was happening, I'd had a hysterectomy. Because I had severe endometriosis. And my endometriosis had after the hysterectomy had spread to my bow. So I was going in for an operation for what I thought was just to kind of take the rest off. But I went down for surgery at like half 11 and didn't get back onto the ward until about 930 at night and I woke up with a colostomy bag. Well, it was an ileostomy. So a stoma, and so again, massive knock back, massive, massive, massive my identity again, was gone, I lost my sense of humour. I lost everything that made me feel like a woman. I didn't feel sexy, I felt even more lost. So I'm trying to deal with it already. I'm trying to deal with the depression, I'm trying to find myself, I just keep everything just feels like it's knocking me back. I'd been trying to hold on to music as much as I could even at Apple store, you know, I was still around creative people. So that was one of the things in my choices. I was like, you know if there's creative people that I can still talk about it and be involved somehow. And it was when I was in hospital and staff that another thing came up. It was the fire brigade or train driving and the fire brigade I wanted to apply for because it was helping people. So I thought but then I knew some firefighters and they're amazing. People are fantastic at what they do. But I knew I would get bored. And I'm not one of these people who can sit around waiting for I guess an emergency to happen. I done the physicals and pass and everything and actually got in. But because I'd had my operation, I knew I was too weak to do the physical. So that was out of the window. And then I also applied for the train driving thing and I got it. And so I was like if I can't do music, and you know, I can't do anything I love I must do a job where I get as much money as I can for little physical energy like because I was still ill. So I was a train driver for a minute and then about a year and then I went into shunting which is when you're in the depots, and you do all the safety checks and stuff like that. So that that was an interesting one really was not my environment. I found it really hard to fit in. felt really trapped. Just Just not morally, everything about it was just not me. I remember my first day finding my mom in training going. I don't what have I done but the money was great. And I would recommend any young person who wants to, I guess do well in their life these days to apply for train driving. It's the job is fun. I love being Shanta. It was brilliant. I love the job. If it's an environment you can handle, I would recommend go and do it. Keep your existing outgoings as they are. Don't buy a new car, don't buy a new house. Save, save, save, save. And then you can buy with cash because that nowadays is the only way young people I think can get on And it is a lifelong career for some people. So I would recommend young people giving it a go now 100%. Yeah, look at me promoting change. I'm like, Yes, we are train driver. But, you know, it wasn't all doom and gloom, and I have to a half show both sides of it. And this is just me and my personal side, because of who I am, that it didn't work for me, you know?
Claire Waite Brown:So Exactly, yeah. So that that wasn't fulfilling for, you know. So, what led you to, or perhaps allowed you to break away from that unfulfilling role or lifestyle, and get back to music,
Unknown:I'd got to the point in the job where I had become a trainer and an assessor. Because, again, I went back to that mentor trainer role to give back to people to give me some purpose, you know, more, I needed more that I wasn't getting. So I did that. And it just got to the point where I just I was just so frustrated by loads of different things that I won't I won't go into. And for years of being unhappy, and my partner, my mom saying, leave, just leave, and I'm like, Yeah, but where am I going to get another job that pays this well, and then I don't like forget the money, just leave if you're not happy leave. And they were making it sound so simple. And I was I just felt stuck inside, I'd gone to get some counselling, because I'd gone off sick with stress and stuff. And I'd requested this person who did CBT, because I'd had CBT before, and it really, really helped. So I went to see him. And it was because of him that I got all of these lightbulb moments, you know, we were thinking about having our daughter, he was like, What would you say to your daughter? And I was like, thing? Of course I'd say this? Of course I'd say that, of course. And I was like, Alright. Okay. And another thing he said was that I'd been constantly trying to prove myself for years and years due to stuff that have happened in my past, or maybe because my dad wasn't around or being gay or, you know, whatever the circumstances were. And he said, One thing to me was like, you don't have to be that person anymore. You've done it so many times. And I was like, Yes, you're right. And I literally, I could see clearly. And that was the moment that I was like, I'm going in, I've got to do this. And I I left and I dived headfirst and I made two promises to myself. One was, I'm going to be open to absolutely everything that comes my way. I had no idea what I was doing, again, didn't know about music industry anymore. It moves so far. And the other thing was to have fun. Because I spent so long, comparing myself to the old me, and the old things that I'd achieved, that whenever I sat down to make a track or write a song, I thought I was rubbish. And I couldn't, I was stuck. I just couldn't move past it. And I realised that all this time, I've been blocking myself from moving on. But at the same time, I had to go through all of this to get to where I am now. It was my journey. And now I feel clearer, stronger. I have more of a purpose. Everything feels like it is as it should be. Everything feels right now.
Claire Waite Brown:That's so positive. That is just so happy and it's just such the right outcome. Tell me then, what everything is that you are doing now. So tell me about peak news about summarising about retreats about the I heard campaign.
Unknown:So I yeah, I dived in. I started pick music UK and originally I started doing hands on workshops for songwriters to give them the tools to get production knowledge to start doing production themselves. Even if they didn't want to do the whole thing. I think I realised that they didn't understand the language that producers use. So I wanted to let them know, you know, just giving them more confidence when they went into a studio environment to be able to express how they want their song to sound and know that the process the producer is using so they can, you know, be more in control. So I started doing that and that went really well. My first one was sold out. And that was in 2020s. So I think it was either February or March I did my first workshop went brilliantly. I had also had my first songwriting retreat pretty much full up. I bought the T shirts, I'd had everything ready and then COVID hit and so I had to cancel all of my workshops that I planned, and obviously my retreat, and then actually, like pivot and change what my business was about, because I just set it up and things that I'd seen could be successful. Because they were getting sold, and we're working. So that happened. And then I was like, What am I gonna do now? So I started getting some business advice and things. And through doing that I realised I'm talking to friends, actually, because I'm like, What are you wanting to do in your business? You know, these are my passions that they like, what are people seeing that? And I was like, Well, no, not really. They're just seeing me doing like workshops and stuff. And so it really made me think about the things that I was passionate about, and that I always have been throughout my whole life, which is promoting women supporting young people lgbtqi Plus, and women of colour. That's when I launched the campaign to promote equality for women in the music industry. Because 20 years ago, when I was doing my dissertation, fast forward to now, hardly anything's changed. Female producers have just creeped up to 3% in 2020. There are other stats are equally abysmal, but I'm really like bad with my stats. I was getting wrong, but it's around. It's around like 70% 17%, for songwriters, out of the top 100 are women DJs are doing better, but still, again, they're, you know, at the lower end, and we're just talking women, we're not talking colours, we're not talking mums. either. I was like, What can I do? What can I do as me to make a change. And then so I launched the campaign. And I can say now that I've sold enough t shirts to start doing my first workshop for, for young women in production and songwriting. So I'm gonna hopefully be doing that this year, which is great. And I've done a lot of talks with, you know, universities and songwriting camps for women and non binary people. And it's, for me, it's about you know, being present, hoping to launch my podcast soon, cool. We are the unheard, which is going to give another platform to people and we're going to talk about everything. So it's not just going to be women in music, I want to touch on things like depression because I felt very unheard when I had depression. I want to touch on things like religion, I want to touch on things like metaphors, because I'm going from a menopause now, hysterectomy, bowel surgery, you know, all of the things I've been through where I have felt unheard. And I know there are other people that feel the same, I want to offer them a platform and be their voice. So that's where I'm at now. And I'm also doing programmes and workshops for women to give them confidence and help them realign with who they were when they were younger and refund their goals and dreams and passions. And doing that through the tools of songwriting.
Claire Waite Brown:That just sounds fabulous and very much in keeping with the creativity found ethos of continuing or to start exploring your creativity as agile 100% 100
Unknown:It's so important, because society just literally dampens us out. It kills us, it kills our spirit. It kills our drive, it kills our passion. We get bombarded with mundane, everyday life. Our flame gets put out by other people's jealousy and their unhappiness for me I have to take responsibility that I allowed other people's on happiness to stop me from shining, that was my fault. And if I can help other young people to make sure they don't go through that when they're young, you know, they realise that when a bully comes up to you, and is mean, it's their problem. Hold the mirror back up to them and say I feel sorry for you that you have to do this to me to make yourself feel better.
Claire Waite Brown:Oh, Eve How can people connect with you?
Unknown:So they can get to me through my website, which is www dot peak music.uk. You can buy a T shirt from there also to support the campaign and all of the proceeds from the T shirt sales go back into supporting women, young women in production and songwriting. You can also get me on all socials, I'm Eve horn Eve underscore horn any of those variables. We are underscore the unheard on Instagram and you know pick music UK on all of the other socials, so Insta, Twitter, all the other things, but you'll find me anywhere trying to talk about the campaign in one way or another.
Claire Waite Brown:Thank you so much Eve it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Unknown:Thank you so much Claire for having me. It's been my honour.
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