Louise Luton – painting wildlife with oils after 20 years as a teacher

Louise Luton was a teacher for 20 years, but after realizing she was in burnout she took the difficult decision to leave the profession and embark on a new life with oil paints.

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Researched, edited and produced by Claire Waite Brown
Music: Day Trips by Ketsa Undercover / Ketsa Creative Commons License Free Music Archive - Ketsa - Day Trips
Artworks: Emily Portnoi emilyportnoi.co.uk
Photo: Ella Pallet

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• 26:59 (Cont.) Louise Luton – painting wildlife with oils after 20 years as a teacher

Transcript

Claire Waite Brown: 0:36

This time, I'm speaking with Louise Luton, who for most of her career really enjoyed teaching at a secondary school and encouraging and helping both students and new teachers alike. After 20 plus years in the profession, she made a dramatic life change, starting all over again by exploring and developing her creative practice. Hi, Louise.

Unknown: 2:03

Hi, Claire.

Claire Waite Brown: 2:04

Tell me what it is you do.

Unknown: 2:08

I'm an artist. I'm primarily a painter. So I, I think I've now been described as a wildlife artist. So I'm focusing on animals. But like all artists, we don't really like to be pigeonholed, even though we sometimes end up that way.

Claire Waite Brown: 2:24

Absolutely. What was your experience of the arts like as a child,

Unknown: 2:29

I'm really lucky, it was really positive. So even though I don't come from an arty family, my dad ran his own business, he was a coal merchant, my experience in school was really positive. So I had three teachers that I think have shaped my life, more than I ever could have imagined at the time. But now looking back, and I think, oh, my goodness, it's come from those three. So I had an amazing art teacher, who so much of my work is influenced by him without me realising it. He's now a sculptor. And I'm not a sculptor in any way, shape, or form. I'm, I'm an oil painter. But my level art history was very, very well read, very, very knowledgeable. And so my love of the Italian Renaissance comes from him. I cried, when I first went into the Sistine Chapel. I see doesn't everyone I paint like Rembrandt at the beginning of a painting, but it ends up crazy and bonkers. But I start off very tradd. And all of that's come from him. And he happened to be married to my English teacher. And so my love of Shakespeare and my love of theatre comes from her. And they are very good friends with my music teacher. So I went to my first first night at the Proms when I was 17. And I think did six proms that season, which when you live in Salisbury, we're actually not even in Salzburg, when you live in a little village, outside Salzburg, and you're 17, and you're learning to drive. And he still managed to make it up to London for a prompt that comes from a very good music teacher. So really positive, they they got it, they understood that the arts is part of our whole being, I think, because I was in a really small school, the teachers talked a lot, and everyone knew everyone else. And so actually, I look back and think that was quite a holistic approach, because they all knew what we were doing as pupils, whereas when you're in a huge school, and you've got eight English teachers, and for art teachers, there isn't that same overlap of knowledge about what the pupils are doing. So I look back and think actually, I was jolly lucky.

Claire Waite Brown: 4:29

Brilliant. How did that positive start play out after school,

Unknown: 4:36

I was lucky enough to be able to explore art as a degree. I didn't do art and drama, which I think deep down I probably wanted to do. So I had, I still had that hangover of my parents generation and you've got to have something to fall back on. So I did a joint degree I did double honours degree and the other half my degree was geography. Not quite sure what I was gonna do with that geography, but I think it was more down to you know, having a formal side of a degree to show that you could actually complete that kind of a course. But I did my degree up in London, which was great for me bright lights, big city, loved it, loved every second of it, went into the galleries the whole time, went to theatre the whole time. messy, scruffy student queuing up for returns outside VA and things like that. It was great, but we just had such a great experience. We really made the most of being in London. I feel For students now, because everything costs so much money. And as a consequence, obviously, they've really really got to work hard that a lot of the extra curricular stuff that we had kind of doesn't exist now because there isn't room for it, there isn't space for it. And I think that's echoed in schools now as well, there isn't room for the extra stuff, because we're so focused on results and, and getting the highest possible grades and the arts have been squeezed out a little bit, but I was lucky.

Claire Waite Brown: 5:57

Speaking of schools, while he was studying, you weren't planning on being a teacher, but you have been an educator for 20 years. So how did that come about?

Unknown: 6:11

Yeah, well, the big plan was, I was gonna go and be a set designer with the BBC. I don't think I mentioned this plan to anyone. He planned. And they didn't recruit that year, I graduated in 92. And it was quite a slow year of graduate recruitment, or I was going to get a job in the theatre. Now money, of course, in the theatre, but immense fun. Obviously, there is money in the theatre for somebody somewhere. But there are an awful lot of people that work in theatre or work in the arts that don't earn a massive amount. But that doesn't matter. As long as they're doing as long as you can earn a living, as long as you can pay the rent, you can eat. And so that was always the plan. And it just didn't work out. So I came home disaster. And everyone was saying you need to be a teacher, probably just because I talked too much, which is quite a skill. As a teacher, actually, you do need to be able to chat a bit, though you have got to let let the kids talk to. And I just didn't know whether or not I'd be able to do that. So went back to my old school, where I had a really positive experience. So went back in to see my art teacher and said, Look, everyone says I need to be a teacher knew and what you aren't already a teacher and and did a couple of weeks work experience the pipe for PDCA got in. And then he said actually, I think I need to keep you here for an extra couple of terms. And I can't remember how that was funded. But we managed to fund it again, paid hardly anything but enough to eat. But boy, did you ever learn and you start learning that actually, education, I think people outside of education assume the hard bit, particularly for a very young teacher is going to be discipline and the children taking the Mickey or whatever. And actually, that's quite a small part of your worry. And as an art teacher, one of the biggest things is managing resources. manage it, how do you Where do you store the art? And how do you manage the amount of stuff that they get through? And now as a full time artists, boy, is that ever important? How do I manage my resources, you know, and speak to any crafter, and they will have the same issue. And it's it's a huge skill. So I ended up doing PC, I love teaching. And the career that I plan to just sort of have a little little go out for a few years ended up being 20 years.

Claire Waite Brown: 8:24

I know you enjoyed teaching, you've just said you loved teaching. And that's been a big part of your life. Tell me about the time at school and maybe tell me what changed. That encouraged you to leave teaching and become an artist.

Unknown: 8:40

Yeah, that was a slow change. Actually, I wasn't I didn't spend 20 years in a job that I hated and was trying to work out an escape route all that time. The majority of it I really loved. But I was I was climbing pretty quick. I was head of department at 25. I was head of year at 26, which ridiculously was head of year in sixth form. So he's only eight years older than the kids. But I loved it. And I loved helping them transition between school in between University. So I was in an 11 to 18 School, which was great, you know, they really do arrive as little children, they are so tiny aged and FM. And they leave as adults is these enormous people. There were a few kids that I taught right the way through all seven years. And it was absolute privilege to see that. But as I got further up to school and had greater and greater responsibility, there was less and less room in my life for creativity. And I look back at that now and think partly It was my fault that I didn't put up some boundaries that I should have done. And there was sort of an old joke of that most of the teachers, I knew that were on the same level as me were sort of senior leaders. We weren't deputy heads, but we were sort of the next row down and that all of us were working regularly 6070 hours a week, which isn't sustainable. But the problem was, I could have worked 90, and the job still wouldn't have been done. And that definitely isn't sustainable. Therein lies some health problems. So, so I think I needed to change some boundaries. But there was kind of a perfect storm of I was working really hard. I was getting really sad. I'd lost my sense of humour. And I had lost my creativity I wasn't there wasn't time in my life, for creativity, combined with the art being squeezed combined with that idea that we teach all subjects In this discrete way, so that we can have our neat little certificate and our grade at the end of it. And that VR was being viewed as the school plays a good idea, because that's, that gives people grit, and it's good for the school. But not actually looking at, you know, what my, my paintings are a battleground, there are choices being made, there are decisions, there's problem solving, in creating a painting. And that problem solving skill, and that resilience can be passed on into other subjects. And my own experience as a, as a pupil. I don't think I would have aimed for that a in chemistry if I hadn't have got an a&r first and said, Oh, level, by the way, not I didn't do a level chemistry. But do you know to mean, it's sort of when you get that praise from a teacher when a teacher trusts you and loves the work that you're doing, you kind of go Yeah, okay, I want to get that somewhere else. And that was being missed. I think, I think the point of the arts, the point of creativity was beginning to be missed. And combined with me being very, very stressed. And kind of, there was a meltdown. There was a dodgy moment in the doctor's sobbing going, what, what do I do? And the decision to leave was really hard, and with the support of my husband, so he said, as long as I've known he wants to be an artist, maybe it's time with the support of my dad. My dad's not with us anymore. But at the time, he said, Yeah, and I'll do what we still do. I had a studio in the back garden. I'll do I'll make it better. And so we suddenly forged this plan of you know what I've done, I've done my time. I've done my 20 years, it's time to go. But it wasn't easy. And it wasn't sudden, it took a long time to reach. Yeah, for want of a better word to read. Breaking points. real shame. Yeah, so

Claire Waite Brown: 12:22

that was the catalyst then.

Unknown: 12:25

Yeah, I think it was kind of I can't carry on like this. I've since had conversations with teachers that I think definitely got to that same breaking point. But because they didn't have a burning desire to do something else. Instead, the check, they changed the way they worked. So there were still very good teachers, and they were still very dedicated. And they still work long hours, but they stopped doing some of the stuff that I was doing, they stopped burning the midnight oil, they definitely stopped doing this. I'm going to work both days weekend. Nope, I need a weekend. And you know, towards the end of my career in teaching, I was in charge of the newly qualified teachers are in charge of staff training. And and I was just the perfect example of Do as I say, don't do as I do have just, I would constantly say to these young teachers who were incredible, have you on the most important resource in the classroom. I don't give a monkey's about your PowerPoint, I care about you. You're the thing that's going to inspire those children, not a pretty PowerPoint, you look after yourself, and then was my own worst enemy then didn't pay attention to myself. But I still I still believe that as well. By the way, I still believe the most important thing in the classroom is the teacher. And if that teacher is in good health, has slept well, and has some energy, they're going to deliver a far better lesson than anything on paper.

Claire Waite Brown: 13:45

Yeah, definitely. That's very important. But it's also something that we hear a lot. Do, as I say, don't necessarily do as I do. Presumably, you handed in your resignation, then what did you do?

Unknown: 14:04

Yeah, I hunted the resignation before the Easter holidays because partly because I'm nice and and I was at the risk of blow one's own trumpet. I was hard to replace, they had to or they had to replace lots of things that they had to replace a drama teacher and art teacher, a trainer. They had to replace lots of different things. So I didn't sort of just skip at all. So I have that final term, which was also kind of nice, because it did mean I had a little bit of closure, and I was able to sort of see out the year 11th in the year Thirteen's, I was able to apologise to the year 10s and the nurses who really were sad that I was going I've kind of how dare you leave me halfway through my course. So that was kind of fine. And then I remember a friend of mine saying to me, we went to a festival is any little festival in the summer holidays and she said, what's it like not being a teacher? I said, I've no idea is August, still a teacher and genuinely on the first of September sobbed and sobbed and sobbed, just sat in my studio and sobbed. Because I literally hadn't. I hadn't not been in a school on the first of September, for actually, I think, 21 years, 22 years. And it was, yeah, pretty much the whole of my adult life, almost the whole of my adult life. And actually, prior to being a teacher, of course, I was an education. So actually, I have operated my entire life on academic years. And that feeling that September is the start, not to the end. And that was really hard. Then just started making some plans and sort of visiting some art firms. So went to some of the autumn fairs with a view of booking the following year's spring fairs and thinking, Oh, could I can I do this and visiting some galleries? So the first six months was definitely a transition. It was a transition in leaving teaching, but also losing that you losing an identity. So being a teacher was part of my identity. It wasn't just my job. And I found it very hard. No, I didn't find it very hard. I found it impossible to say, Oh, I'm an artist. Now. I said, I used to be a teacher. And it took a while. And now that seems ridiculous to me. Because if somebody asked me what I do, I say I'm an artist. And then if they're foolish enough to say, Yeah, but what do you do for a living? I'm lucky enough to be able to go, still an artist pay tax and everything. But most people still do, and most people do. It's a glorified hobby. And that's okay. Because I am really fortunate, but I didn't. It's not I didn't believe it was possible to be a full time artist, but I didn't. I didn't know how it was gonna pan out. And seven years ago, there's no possible way I could have predicted how I'm earning my living, how the revenue streams have moved, what I'm doing was impossible to have imagined that.

Claire Waite Brown: 17:24

Okay, speaking of that way things have changed and not imagining back then what it is you're doing now. And at very beginning, you described yourself as a wildlife artist. Tell me what and how you were painting when you started this new journey? And how that has changed over the years?

Unknown: 17:48

Yeah, it was different. So it starts off with landscapes and seascapes, sort of fairly broad abstract II skies as well. But I think my plan was I was going to paint a room with a view. So deep down like quite a lot of artists. The ultimate dream is to have a studio with Seaview. But it's kind of let the 2 million quid I've got to do to have a CV, you know, it's bonkers. It's, you know, certainly if I was going to be in Dorset, or Devon or Cornwall, that's, that is quite an extraordinary dream. So I thought, let's paint the perfect view, let's paint what people wish they could see when they look out of their kitchen window. Let's pray that which I thought was a genius idea. But there are some amazing landscape artists out there. And I think my error was I was so frightened of people hating my work that I don't like to use the word bland, but it was a bit bland or it was a bit it was a bit easy to ignore. If you make something that nobody can hate, you also make something that actually nobody's gonna love either. So when you produce something that has a punch has a power to it that we've got, oh my god, that's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. There will be somebody else next that goes, I hate it. And as an artist, you have to recognise that you have to be able to do that every musician goes through that. And it's fine, that there's some music that you will love and your best. That is horrible. It's hurting my ears. It's just the same for artists. But I was trying so hard to not be hated that actually it wasn't lovable enough. And then just a few things started happening. Because I'm on the very close to the New Forest. I'm gonna do quite a lot of work in the New Forest. I painted a Highland cow there are quite a lot of Highlands in the forest. I know that sounds bespoke islands, but that was kind of a dad challenge really, and painted this big, trippy Highland council straightaway, but you're right, then painted a stag Yep, so straight away. So there was sort of there's probably about a year of art fairs. I used to really love having a corner stand just a two Ward stand rather than a three wheeled stand. I'd love a lovely little corner. And I did a few in a row where one side was landscaped. One side was animals and I'd hang them that way. And quite often it was it was an even mix. There are a couple of art fairs where the landscapes we're still going. But very slowly, that landscape wall seem to just stay the same through the fat and the animal wall was just turning over work, going back out to the car getting more work. And I thought okay, the universe is giving me a message here, it's time to focus. And then that's since moved into more wildlife work going further fields, particularly the Africa work, the Masai Mara completely changed everything for me it was just the most incredible place. So it's now taking on a life of its own of looking at conservation and looking at the balance between our animals and how they exist in our landscape. And so that still comes back to the New Forest. You know, I remember very clearly talking about it in in London when I was a teenager at university. And people can get the animals don't just walk around what? Yeah, no, they really do. What? So you could wake up in the morning and be an animal in your front garden. Yeah. Which is why people have categories in their drive. Yes. You could be thinking I was lying. If you can wake up and find a pony in your garden. Yes, you can. So actually, but that's got a lot in common with Ms. Omar. It's just it's not a pony. It's a zebra. But, but they do they roam around. And so there's this bit of me kind of thinking of that where things are going and looking at the triangle of animals the landscape and and human beings and how, how we get that triangle better balanced.

Claire Waite Brown: 21:40

Yeah, brilliant. Um, what about your materials and your method of working?

Unknown: 21:46

Yeah, I'm an oil painter through and through, it would probably be better for me if I was an acrylic painter. So I've I've looked at a used to have loads of solvents and things that nothing's benign, if you're going to dilute something that's oily, nothing's as benign as water for me, but I'm getting better and better at finding alternatives that that work and, and just having very good habits of virtually nothing goes down the sink. So things like that are just really important, again, looking at the environment, but it's going down the sink into my garden. So it's, there's a very powerful reminder of if the rosebush dies outside, I know, it's my fault, that kind of thing. But in terms of method, very tried, yeah, it's back to Rembrandt. It's thick, over thin, light over dark. So I start off with just very diluted, usually Burnt Umber, better French ultramarine, which just makes a really lovely brownie black. And that's how it starts. It's really diluted, that's where the drips come from. And it's really diluted. And then, as the form gets taken on things like more and more three dimensional, that's when I go bonkers. And that's when these crazy pinks and purples and blues come out. And that's why you have a lion with a blue nose, because actually, it just works. So it's a real combination of a very traditional way of working alongside, actually, me just feeling the colour and just going with the flow. It's that blend of being very formal and having methodology, and then being very, very creative.

Claire Waite Brown: 23:18

Speaking of which, then that leads me nicely on to the balance of running this as a business and your personal creativity, do you find you can achieve that balance? You'd love the creating? And the actual business side of it is fine and manageable? Or do you have imbalances?

Unknown: 23:42

Yeah, I have imbalances. And I think that possibly why I'm able to look back on the teaching thing, and I could play in the world, I could blame the government, I could blame the school for why I was so stressed. Or I could take responsibility myself and go, you weren't setting your own boundaries. And the same things kind of happened this past year, this time. Last year, when we went into the first lockdown or sort of, you know, end of March, April and May of last year, like a lot of people I was sobbing into my teacup going well, what's gonna happen if everything's closed. And then actually 2020 turned into a very busy year. And I think because everyone stayed at home, did up their lounge and then wanted to buy some artwork to put in it. But also that if people were lucky enough to get a refund from holidays, people wanted to treat themselves and if they booked that big holiday because it was a big anniversary or a big birthday. They want something to mark that occasion. And I've had a lot of commissions that have been big birthdays or big anniversary. So actually Art's done well. But that in turn, has meant I've had to look at my own boundaries, because I was replying to emails at midnight on a Sunday and you think, stop, stop. It's, the person is Nick, I'm not Amazon, they're not expecting a reply. They've just done that, because that's on their time scale, because they're not working. So they've sent an email at 10 o'clock on a Sunday night, because that's convenient for them really need a reply. Now. They're not really anticipating upon reply. It's fine. So I think I still have to work very hard on my own boundaries. Because painting on a Saturday morning is still a joy even though I don't need to that's still fine. But I think doing the books. Yeah, doing the boring stuff for want of a better word about the business that is still very important. I find it's better if I set aside time. So whether that's on a Tuesday afternoon or whatever, right, that's when we do this. And we set aside that time formally in the week. And then if I want to go and paint the weekend great. Or if I want to go for a walk and do some watercolours that have got nothing at all to do with how am I living? Great. That's fine. I think it's probably key for anyone. You don't have to be creative that we have to we have to stop replying to emails at midnight. It's it's okay to switch the phone off and to just relax. And stop. I think that's a very powerful lesson for all of us.

Claire Waite Brown: 26:52

The theory good piece of advice there, Louise. I love sharing my guest stories with you. But podcasting isn't cheap. There are hosting fees and software costs, tech to buy and time to invest in planning and editing. To make sure the guests sound great. And listeners hear the best content. If you'd like to financially support creativity found, please visit kayo hyphen, f i.com slash creativity found podcast. Tell me a bit about your studio because I have been lucky enough to see it through the screen. And I know that because of your oil, paint drying situation, you have to have a few things going on at once. So tell me a bit about what's happening right now. And also if you've been trying new things or what's coming up in the future.

Unknown: 27:51

Yeah. So this view that you've got that our listeners haven't got is I'm now in the office, he part of my studio. And down the says is the painting part of the studio. And upstairs is the storage part of the studio. My studio is built onto the end of the garage. So there was a garage at the end of the driveway like normal mortgages. And I'm on a slope. So the previous owners, the previous guy here was a bookbinder, he managed to create a mezzanine floor. So the garriage just continues out. But because it's on the slope, we have a downstairs area and an upstairs area. So I've got delineated spaces. So there is an office space, which is also kind of at the moment, you can see there's parcels packed up behind me and things like that. So that's also where I can put finish stuff, and store all of that. And then in the painting area, everyone has to assume it might be wet, don't touch it, it's probably wet. But that was always a problem, if I was running a workshop here was I had to be very careful about where I was putting things because not everyone would assume that something's wet. So I normally work on between eight and 10 pieces at a time. And I've got a few at the moment where I'm beginning to play with cold wax medium. So cold wax, it's not in caustic, you don't heat it, hence It's cold. But you have to mix it with oil, you can't mix cold wax with acrylic. So it's just for me, it's just yet another medium to mix in with my old paint. And it takes a while to dry. And because it's quite thick, you have to work on on wooden panel so that you've got something rigid. I think some people have used wax on canvas, but you would have to use it very thin, because in the end, it will crack because the canvas will stretch and move. So I've been playing around with that and playing around with textures and rather enjoying myself with that. But primarily it's oil on linen. So yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff. But I've got so there are two, there are two Commission's behind me that are wrapped up ready to stand to commissions that are drying, that have now been paid for but aren't ready to turn because they're wet and two commissioners that I've just started sketching out. And that's just the permissions plus the stuff that's happening with galleries. So it's busy. And sometimes again, it's kind of back to the the idea of business. Sometimes you can get overwhelmed with that and think, Oh my goodness, what am I doing this is too much. Or if you're really organised, I do love writing things down in a planner, I'm still a stationery fiend. If you're organised rather than being overwhelmed and go, this is amazing. Look at this. And so there's a mindset about a creative business as well that I think is really important. run the business bit like a business but really enjoy the creative bit and keep that that spark going on the creative bit. And then Happy Days happy life.

Claire Waite Brown: 30:45

Brilliant. Tell me a bit about your relationship with your galleries because I know that you now have an understanding of which your type of work might work at this gallery and which might work at this gallery.

Unknown: 31:01

Some people are very worried about gallery some artists are very worried about galleries. So if if there's an artist listening to this that is worried about for instance, the 50% Commission which is pretty standard that isn't a gallery ripping you off. That isn't a bargain either. It's about right most on 50%. And that's pretty scary because you might want a gallery worth salt is worth that 50% because I find selling really hard I find painting really easy. So I'm effectively paying them to do the stuff that I didn't like doing So at first, it's brutal. So I can remember the first time visiting. Actually every gallery I work I've got four galleries, that type of originals. But there are a lot of galleries that I've got my prints now but the galleries that take my originals and I rock up with let's say eight pieces all in you know those those big art pack blue padded bags that are lovely that protect it new wizard out. And it this will sound really brutal. And I don't want it to put somebody off, but they will go Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, anything. But actually, it's really good that a gallery does that for you. Because they're not saying no, because it's rubbish. They're not saying no, because you're rubbish. The saying no, because they know their clients, and they know what will sell and everything. And then they will take upon every now and then they will go well, I don't know if that'll sell here. But I like it. Yeah, let's give it a go. Let's see what happens. We put it in the window, see if we get any interest. And they also will play that game as well that they they know, even if something doesn't sell, then they'll know if it's going to because it will have generated some interest people will be asking about or they'll be asking about the artist. So so they might go No, no, leave that with us. You know, we'll we'll have that for another couple of months. were quite happy with that. And I think one thing that you have to decide with your gallery is, is Yes, you've got to work out how much what is that percentage of the wall price, and most of the time, it'll be 50%. Followed by when are you going to pay me and I know, it's really awful. But if you don't know, and then they don't pay you, then you've got a problem. So it's a really good idea to find out and most galleries pay at the end of the month, or at the beginning of the following month for the previous month. Sometimes they will pay quarterly. Sometimes you have to invoice them, sometimes they let you know. So there's lots of different things. But as long as you know what it is in advance. And you've you've asked the questions, and they've asked the questions of you, then everyone knows the rules and you carry on. And it's it's actually really nice. I'm very, very lucky. I don't have a problem with any of my galleries. They're really nice, even when they've turned down pieces. I know they're acting in my best interests. And so actually, it's fine. It doesn't hurt. Where is it first? It was? Yes, it's scary and hard.

Claire Waite Brown: 33:56

That's really helpful. Thank you.

Unknown: 33:58

I think it's a really positive process. And I think for anyone listening, if they are planning on getting their work into galleries, do your homework first, do not approach a gallery that doesn't have anything at all in it that even vaguely resembles what you're producing. Because they're going to turn you down and you're going to feel awful when actually they're not turning you down. They're not saying your work isn't isn't good enough. They're saying your work isn't gonna work here.

Claire Waite Brown: 34:27

Brilliant, thank you so much. That's really encouraging. What are your plans and thoughts about the future as we come out of lockdown?

Unknown: 34:37

I think it's been really exciting for me, now that we're looking at coming out of lockdown is looking at how how things might change for the better that we've got to make, to try and make sense of what's happened in this past year. So as an artist in business, one of the things I'm going to change, there are some events that got cancelled last year that you know what, maybe I'm not going to go back to them, maybe, maybe some things can fall away. And other things can will stay. The new first show is still my favourite event of the year. And that's still not happening this year. But you know, I'm going to be back there with bells on next year. But then I wonder about, you know, quite a lot of my friends with teenage children. And I'm really seeing a rise in people not worrying about chasing that top grade that grade nine in maths after all of obviously, we want our children to do as best as they possibly can. But actually, we really want them to be happy. And I think I think we've been really brave through this year. I think the vast majority of people actually have come through and and done okay, but I really hope we can learn those lessons and sort of pursue that happiness, pursue that strength in mental health. And let go of some of the things that maybe just don't matter as much as we thought they did, which I guess possibly includes me mailing mid vote as well. Let go of it.

Claire Waite Brown: 36:07

There are many, many podcasts out there. It's difficult to know where to start. So I like to ask my guests for their recommendations. You're welcome.

Unknown: 36:19

She means business by Carrie green. And the reason I recommend that was read Carrie Greene's book she means business Oh gosh. When it first came out was I think was 2017. And it definitely helped me become more business like I've since been interviewed by her but I don't know if my interview even exists anymore because it's quite a long time ago. But it's really good. I think you know, there are loads of membership sites and things like that. And Carrie green does do a membership site. But if you don't want to spend great waters of cash buying a book is quite nice because it's a 10 or or whatever, and a podcast is free so I'd recommend that one. And the other one which is new to me is seize the day with Natalie Millis now, and that's very much about empowering women to make some decisions and some positive changes in their life whether it's a huge change, like me leaving one career to start a new one or whether actually it's a small change to to embrace life where seize the day embrace your life. So that's a really nice one to listen to. I've listened to a few of hers that I really enjoy them thank you they

Claire Waite Brown: 37:23

fit in very nicely with everything you've just been talking about. Louise How can people connect with you?

Unknown: 37:32

Yeah, so my website it's really easy to find on ww dot Louise Luton art all one word.com but if you google Louise Luton, you'll find me and I'm on Instagram and on Facebook again under Louise Luton art. I post work read it regularly. It used to be every single day but again, I'm learning some boundaries and you know what, I don't need to chase the followers. Let's just post some beautiful works and work in progress and then people people follow it there at their leisure.

Claire Waite Brown: 38:01

Brilliant Louise. Thank you very much. That's been a lovely chat.

Unknown: 38:06

Absolutely fab pleasure to be here.

Claire Waite Brown: 38:09

Thank you.