Have you ever wondered how I find my creativity? Probably not, but let's just say that podcasting has been a revelation to me, and gives me loads of creative 'feels'.
So when I was invited to the Podcast Show in London to record in a pop-up studio on the Shure stand, I decided I would use the opportunity to discuss the creativity of podcasting, and invited along fellow podcaster, and Creativity Found guest too, Rabiah Coon.
We talk about the processes that surround the act of producing a podcast episode - including writing show notes, which is what I am doing right now and, you'll find out, is not my favourite task.
We discuss our inspirations, our ways of working and give advice for anyone on the cusp of trying out podcasting for themselves.
You'll also hear a lot more of the recording than you usually would, because I've kept in some of the behind-the-scenes chat, partly because it illustrates some of the points about podcasting that we discuss, and also partly because they are quite funny.
'Both of us, I think, have podcasts that have a purpose. Like this is really a way of serving for me. And to encourage people to pursue things.' - Rabiah Coon
Rabiah Coon at Creativityfound.co.uk
Clubhouse: @clairewaitebrown and Creativity Found Connect club
Artworks: Emily Portnoi emilyportnoi.co.ukSupport the show
This episode is slightly different than usual, partly because it's about me. Well, it's actually about how I and fellow podcaster Rabiah Coon find our creative Mojo through podcasting. Because we recording at a trade show in person, rather than across two computer screens. You can hear the muffled atmosphere of the show in the background. I've also left in some of the behind the scenes chat that I would usually edit out. I hope you enjoy it. I'm here with Rabiah. But before we start, it's May 25 2022. And I'm not recording from my home bought from the business Design Centre in Islington, London at the podcast show 2022 And Romeo and I are in the studio of exhibitors, sure. Who champions studio quality sound for all with their range of microphones and headphones suited perfectly to podcasting. They didn't pay me for that. That's me just being kind. So yeah, my guest is Rabiah Coon, who is a fellow podcaster and creativity found guest who previously talked with me about her brave challenge to herself to try stand up comedy before she was 40. She got in there just in time and has continued to perform stand up. Hi, Rabiah, how are you? Good. Claire. How are you? Thank you so nice that we're in the same room where you showing split screen when we talk to each other? Exactly. We are we so not only are we in the same room, but we're in this really cute little shed with lots of insulation and fancy stuff in it. Yeah. All the sound panelling. Yeah, we're pretending to be real podcast is. So I thought today because of where we are. And this is an episode of creativity found podcast that week talk about how we both find creativity through our podcasting. And some of you know that I never had any intent Shouldn't have starting a podcast until I kind of accidentally came up with an idea for a topic that I thought people might find interesting. And growing and developing that has been one big creative process. But also on a smaller scale. Each individual episode is its own little production or on work, so to speak. Tell me how you started the more than work pod. And if you feel creatively inspired or fulfilled by doing so, and which bits of that make you happiest? Yeah, sure. So, first of all, I started a podcast actually, in the mid 2000s. That was an interview podcast. So like more than working that way. But it was all musicians and that kind of thing. And we just didn't see what was coming with podcasting. So I was never a big fan of my voice. But I liked the journalist aspect of it and of, of interviewing people. And so during the pandemic, I wanted to do a podcast again, and I wanted to kind of share my voice, even though I never liked my actual speaking voice, I was fine with sharing it, because I'd be featuring someone else. And I'm really service minded and purpose driven. And so when I came up with more than work, it was really just to talk through the mental anguish of going through a job that you were tired of, and burnout and things like that. And now it's evolved into more, maybe people not going through that, but really just finding ways to do work that expresses their values, or to do things outside of work that express their values. And for me, it's very creative. Because I get to talk to different people, I have to formulate different questions for them, learn about new topics, and also write all the show notes and everything. And that part's really creative. So do that, too. Yeah, I, I don't like the writing. And it's not necessarily something that you'd instantly think you needed to do certainly not for the kind of podcasts that we do, which is an interview podcast, you do have to write the questions, possibly some people don't, some people go straight in and go off the cuff. I am a very organised person, I really like to know what I'm getting into and to feel prepared. So I do have a pre chat with my guest. And I write the questions beforehand. But that follows a bit of a formula. So that kind of thing is okay for me now. But you do often get to the end of editing. And think, yay, I've finished my episode. And then oh, no, I've got to write the show notes. And I've got to write social media posts. And I can do that I can do that. Well, I just don't, I don't enjoy it. What do you think about that kind of thing? So absolutely. I mean, there's part of it, you're writing things that you just don't want to be doing the social media, I don't want to do write. But I always wanted to be a writer, I kind of stopped myself dreaming in my 20s. And just was like, Well, I work in it now. So I'm not a writer anymore. And so I work really hard on my communications to guests and writing those and have a whole communication stream set up for that, which is my marketing side. And then I do now enjoy writing the shownotes. Because I see the purpose is to get more traffic to my website. But I do like that part of the creativity. And then also, I like the editing too. And I didn't mention that before. But the editing is where I get to be creative in a totally different way and kind of shape the podcast. Yeah, I completely agree. As you know, I have edited books for quite a number of years. And it's more than just like correcting the grammar or correcting the spelling, there's more to editing books, especially the illustrated nonfiction books I do, we have to look at the pictures, we have to look at what the usually artists and creatives who are writing that what they're writing makes sense to people who may never have, you know, tried that activity before. And it's the same with audio editing, you're not just taking out the arms and the ORs. But you are kind of moulding, a finished piece. So we are creating our own our own artwork or area. Because like when you look at a piece of art, or sculpture, a piece of jewellery, whatever, you see the finished article, but you don't see everything that went into that. So you may say or somebody may say, oh, that artist is so talented, or all that singer is so talented. But what you're not seeing is everything that's gone in the background, and I'm sure you have this with comedy as well is that there's a lot of prep that goes into that there's a lot of experience, you'll try some stuff and it won't work or you putting stuff into it that nobody sees in the finished piece. And that's kind of what we're doing with this aren't we were and I could offend my guests now. Like, I take out the boring bits. Sorry guests. None of you are boring. Honestly, there are never any boring bits. But you know sometimes you think actually you kind of already said that and this is going to feel a bit repetitive and I want my list Not rather I want my listener to have the best possible experience and the best possible look at the guest. So I do a kind of pre edit in that I guide, the format of the interview, so I know which order it goes into that makes the editing easier for me. And people will be surprised with the amount of hums and ahhs and other little foibles that they have. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, the, the whole, um, filler words that people do happens a lot. And I don't I don't think you do this. And I don't either I don't take every single one out, because that's not how people talk. But when someone almost has a tick, or even if I do, and I'll, I'll take the speech patterns of my guests a lot. So someone says, like, all the time, I end up saying, like, for a whole day afterwards, and I'm like, thank you for that. And then I realise, you know, when I'm editing that I have to take those out. So I take some of the filler out. Yeah, yeah, I definitely enjoy the editing. Do you enjoy it? Yeah, for sure. I think first of all, the editing makes or breaks the podcast and kind of what you were saying about, you know, you'll take out repetitive bits and things like that. And I do not plan ahead the way you do. And I have and actually does help. And when I have guests who want to know the questions ahead, and I've done that with with them. And I have one coming up that once that which is fine. But I think sometimes people will start down a path they didn't mean to or you asked a question in a way that maybe didn't get the answer you're looking for. So you have to ask another one. And generally, the people listening, maybe don't really have the time to even listen to all that, right. It's a conversation. But I bet people who like in the NSA in the states who are listening to like phones and stuff, don't want to listen to the entire conversation either. So we're kind of just fixing that. But when things are really disruptive, I just figure I can fix them. And it's kind of like you said, with comedy, too. I'll start out with a bit. It'll be a minute and a half. And I'll end up maybe 25 seconds when I'm really done with Yeah, editing it. And usually that editing is embarrassing happens on stage in front of people. So you know, when the GLAAD is that we edit our podcasts before we publish them? Yes, you don't do jokes when it's reactive, isn't it? So if you're talking about you have a joke that doesn't go down so well? Or? I'm sure that never happened? Yeah. That's what everyone's heard of me for comedy. Yeah, you can change it. And I think we can be reactive to our guests as well, in that way. I mean, I've certainly had guests who I have had the pre chat with, and then something completely different and unexpected has come out in the episode. But having those notes helps me not being right, like blown away by that and not be panicked or not able to get back because I've got those notes and I can go okay, that's really that's good to hear or bad to hear or that's very sad. And then try and get it back. And always minor always finishing with a happy ending, as I'm sure yours are. So we always want to have that. That lovely arc of it finishes with the happy ending. I don't give myself enough time to do the editing. Yeah, I mean, it takes a while. And I feel like I've tried to optimise it, so to speak, I use this one app called the script. So I get my transcript right from it. But I'll still have to do a lot of work. Like I can automate some of it. But I guess it's, I could just say, Take remove the word. I could do that in the app. And I can see how many times removed and just go from there. But I think it's so important to listen to the whole thing. Even Even when I do that. Yeah, sometimes too. I don't know if you've done this where you asked me a question, and they didn't perceive the question and the way you meant it. Yeah. And then that ends up with this awkward thing you want to get rid of? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, definitely. So if you were actually I'm gonna let you introduce this question. Because we were in a room earlier, weren't we with who were we with who? Oh, so? Well, I was there specifically to see Rich Wilson. He has insane in the membrane, but he's a brilliant comic, also that I really kind of admire for comedy. So we were watching him on a podcast, I think the podcast Bible, but I'm not 100% Sure. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And he was on a panel. And the host of that panel asked a rather good question that I thought I would steal for us. So if you've got a new listener talking to you about your podcast, would you suggest that they go back and start at episode one? Would you pull out a particular episode that you think oh, that's my favourite one. I always want to hit him with that one first. Or would you have another approach for suggesting what they listen to first? It's a tough question, and I've had time to think about it. So I was watching that panel. But I think what I tend to do because I'm just saying, but what I do is I tell people, you know, I have my most recent episodes with X guest. But if that seven doesn't interest, you just find one that does I have guests from all different things. Or if I know someone's an entrepreneur, for example, I'll probably tell them, there's this one episode with a guy who founded priority bicycles. It's David wiener. So I would tell him listen to that, because he's a founder, awesome. If it's something around substance abuse, there's a few episodes around people who work in that, or if they're just interested in me, like sometimes on dating apps, people ask about my podcast, they can just listen to my first episode and see if they can stand me or not. Is that why you started your podcast? Yeah, I just started. And it's not working well, so I keep going. But I'm not. I'm still not dating anyone. So what about well, maybe that first episode is a killer, right? What about you? What would you say to people? Yeah, I had a good thing about this question as well. And I'm similar to you in that we have guests who have different experiences. So I might say to someone who's a poet, go and listen to this one. Or I might say to someone who has maybe resonated with me, of an experience where there are a traumatic experience or something in the past, I say, you might find help from this episode, especially from that point of view of of the happy ending, that it's always something that is worked through somehow. So I definitely wouldn't say go to the first one, I definitely wouldn't say the first one was, is my best, I definitely wouldn't say it was my worst either. Actually, other than maybe audio quality, the content is always good in all of them. We love all of them. So I think I might go down the road of maybe a particular topic or a theme. We have lots of similar themes. We have lots of themes of you know, people not feeling worthy when they were young, or reasons that they've come back to creativity because something traumatic or upsetting or medical has happened and things like that. So they're all wonderful, and there's something for everything, but I just thought it was a really good question. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And I they asked something else, too, that I thought was interesting was just or they were talking about the quality of podcasts from the start to now and I know, we both talked about microphones before because that's how cool we are. Horrible microphone, and it's not a very tinny, but I thought was cool microphone cuz it's on a stand, right? Yeah. And then the minute I replace, I was like, oh, man, how do people listen to this podcast for a season or something? Yeah. Yeah, I'm very big on quality. Although it doesn't. It has to be clear to turn it on. I certainly the first microphone I got which was secondhand was really good price. Really easy to use worked brilliantly. I now use a Shure microphone, because that was one of my prizes for winning the award. And that's why I'm here. The International Women's podcast award is of course better. But then again, the quality doesn't necessarily have to put people off, you can get good quality. without spending a shitload of money and getting really hit up by we were in another talk. And it was about people being a bit concerned about the tech. And that being a point of not starting a podcast, which I would say, takes a little bit of research. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be hugely expensive. And once you start doing that research, it's kind of like, work. It's common sense. Well, it was to me anyway, I think so I think there's the podcasts community is really nice. I mean, look, we we both have podcasts. I don't think we see each other as competent competition or see each other as well. Close doing this, so I can't do it. I'm gonna probably have one of your guests. At some point. We've been a guest on each other's Yeah, I think that's one thing that's nice about the podcast community is that there are so many podcasts, but there are also so many ears of Yeah, to us that, you know, if someone is thinking about something like that, and really I think your podcast does this well, too is just kind of introduces that people around to help in any creative endeavour. You just have to ask. I did a lot of listening as well listening to other podcasts. And you'll write about community. There are groups, aren't they Facebook groups and actual other membership groups who are there to help each other out and you can ask advice on Yeah. Wow. Doing this quite quickly, aren't we? Which is fine. How long do we have? Well, we have an hour a whole hour but oh, we do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do another episode. Because while we do more than one new podcast now, what else can we talk about? Because we've talked about everything on my list. Hadn't wait. We said about a few if we were to here to inspire. Yeah. Well, you could I could go in so what we just said you were saying? You We were saying, oh, there's a community and you can listen and stuff. So that one, that question will work. Yeah, speaking of, you know, it's fairly, fairly easy to do. That's not to say it's not really easy. It does take up time, you should be willing to put time into it. But if you wanted to inspire podcast listeners to try podcasting for themselves, for their own creativity as a creative outlet, is there any specific advice you might give? Yeah, so first of all, find a subject you're passionate about. And if you think other people will find it boring, don't worry about that, then they're not your listeners, just because the niche podcast can actually get you more listeners than you would think. Because maybe not a lot of people are talking about that subject. And also just kind of be patient with like numbers and how many listeners you have, because a lot of people are lying about their numbers is the bottom line, like, because I did research on it. And people would tell me, they had so many listeners, and then my podcast was ranking higher. And I was feeling bad about my numbers. And so I think it's just something that you should just be patient with and know the listeners will come. And your goal really needs to be communicating a message. I think that's what our goal is, I think that's a helpful goal to have. I mean, you don't have to do that. But I think it's helpful to have some purpose outside of just getting a bunch of listeners, there's a thing called pod fade, that's really happens really quickly to people where they put out a couple episodes, and they just fade away. So try to think of your first 10 episodes or something and plan ahead, so you know what you're going to be talking about. Otherwise, it's hard to put something out every week, and you don't want to put something out every week. So it's just kind of, I guess my advice, if it was going to be short, would just find something interested in talking about find people to talk about it with and just have a goal of just making the podcast and don't make these other crazy goals that don't even make sense. And yeah, fine. Yeah, there are people have their different reasons that they say for starting a podcast. And some people might say they want to make money from it. Sorry, shouldn't be laughing at that should definitely not be your first your I needed to spend more money. So I could spend money, because that's all I've been doing. Yeah, so you're absolutely right, you need the subject matter that you're interested. I completely agree about the numbers. I completely agree about the your niche if that's what you want to talk about. And don't go at it as if, when you're looking at numbers and like you say, Don't compare to other people. And know that, you know, if 10 people are hearing what you're listening, what you're saying, then that is a value to those 10 people, obviously, and it could be more or less than that. I was gonna say what was the other thing I was gonna say? Oh, flipping flip. digipak one thing I was gonna say yeah. Is like, it doesn't have to be weekly to Yes, yeah. You didn't mention that. Yeah, no. Yeah, that's okay. Because I do agree with that. Yeah, also don't listen too much to advice. Yeah, I mean, people like to just talk given, what do they know? What do they know? They can tell you how to do things. I mean, they didn't ask for my advice. You did a difference. Now, I'm gonna come up with my own advice. Don't listen to people's advice. No. One thing is don't take it too seriously. Take it with a pinch of salt and take it how you want to. So you did briefly mentioned you don't have to do it weekly. People will say, you have to be consistent. You have to do this. I mean, you and I both have random seasons. Don't you have random numbers? We do. Actually. Yes, I did. I told you that I set up my season. I don't know why now this one I hit episode 20 of the season. I'm doing a couple more. Because I need a break in a couple of weeks. I need a break this week. Yeah. Yeah. So don't listen, don't get bogged down by that advice that lots of people will give you that it has to be regular. It has to be this you need to be getting this many downloads. blardy blardy blar do it for your enjoyment. And one of the well, one of the most important benefits actually, that we've both found is the amount of people that we've got to meet both through our guests, through our listeners through the podcast community that we keep banging on about, but there are so many people I can call friends out there. Now. I wasn't a vet. I didn't think I was a very sociable person. But turns out I am turns out I really liked people talking to people and it makes me really happy and it makes them happy. And that is I think the best part of it for me. Yeah, I think I'm definitely an introvert for sure. And it took me a while to realise that and to because I always thought I was an extrovert but I'm an introvert but I like to have more one on one Converse. Asians are podcasting lets me do that. And also, you're right, just meeting different guests and hearing their stories and kind of, it's changed my story a little bit. Yeah, because I've been more open to things that I might not have been interested in. And also the whole sharing information. I mean, even doing this, it doesn't benefit you to keep it all to yourself, whatever it is. And I think podcasting is a way to do that. Express your ideas, but also, if you want, if you have a guest that you want to share their ideas to, but that's pretty fun. Yeah, the same here the opportunities, and I'm doing things that I never would have imagined doing. Coming from, I think when I started this podcast, it was because I wasn't able to do openstage arts classes. And I wanted to try and keep the momentum of the openstage Arts website going, yeah. But actually, it's turned into a much bigger, much more exciting, much more wide ranging creatively wise than I ever would have expected. It's all kind of flip flopped around from what I thought I was creating in the first place is now something completely different, which I absolutely love. Well, I don't know if I told you this. And if I, if I didn't, I should have but you so you're on my podcast, as you know, and people know. But I did get feedback from a coworker who I know pretty well. And she wrote to me and said she was in tears, listen to your episode of more than work because you made her feel okay about her doing art. Because she felt embarrassed, kind of that she would had this passion. And she's a project manager in it. And she had this passion of doing art. And in talking to you, and I think hearing your story and how you did dancing, and then you ended up eventually, with openstage jars, I think just hearing about you and kind of it took the shame away for her, because she didn't feel like an imposter anymore. And so that was special. And I think to your point about if only 10 People hear it, you could impact them, but also to what you were saying just now too. I mean, it just got to know it's just an opportunity, really to share and to talk and and do all that. Oh, that's me. Oh, I feel all emotional. Now. That's really good. That's really, really sweet and so pleased. I was too. I mean, it's, I think, Oh, I guess my point with that, too, is like both of us, I think have podcasts, I have a purpose. Like this is really a way of serving for me. Right. And to encourage people to pursue things. I think your podcast is very similar thing in a different way. Creativity versus mine. kind of varies a lot. Yeah. That which Yeah, you know, it's fine to but yeah, it's nice looking at people's worse. Yeah. And steel says Your worth is more than your job. Yeah. And this is the same even it's very specifically looking at the creative areas of life, because they're often ones that are given given less importance in society. But both of what we're talking about is that there is worth in you listener for more than just being a mother or being a lawyer or whatever it may be. There's so much more to life that you can embrace. So, what should we do now? We can make the kind of how long are your episodes anyway? They're about they're about 35 minutes. So you're probably Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anything else to watch? Should we finish on or anything else before we finish? I don't think so. We don't pretty which 1am i because we're not trolls. We're good. I mean, at the front, I messed up. I was like, You saw my face? Why didn't with Oh, with the thing. I was like, it proves the point, though, because I had it written down. I knew that you'd mentioned that. And then even though it was in a different order, but that's fine. That's all part of okay. It's like improv. I was so annoyed. That you were not you were just like, you saw my face, right? Yeah. Absolutely brilliant. Right. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna finish Okay. Um, I don't know what else I mean. Okay, that's what our favourite podcasts are you want or forget the podcast community. I'm not giving anybody else any adverts. Totally. Okay, I'm just gonna wing something. Yeah. Well, that has been an absolutely thoroughly enjoyable chat. I'm so glad you came here with me today. So glad you agreed to be my guest on this special episode. And it's been really exciting to be here at the podcast show. It's the first one and we've been mingling and listening to some people and meeting some other people. So the whole thing has been very exciting. And I think there's obviously There's a lot of buzz around the industry of podcasting, which is not necessarily what we're talking about. We're not talking about it from an industry point of view. We're more of a guest a listener a sharing point of view. But it's very exciting to have so many people here. And it being a recognised thing. I mean, I don't know about you because my family take the Michael out of my podcasting. Mine. Don't listen to my podcast. Yeah. My mom I've asked her to and she did listen to like, couple, one episode I had my sister on so I was like, well, there's we're both there. Can you possibly listen to that one? But, you know, I, I've asked them to at least like like it on. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's nice to be in a place where you feel represented and you feel like you're in. I can't think of the right word wherever. Yeah. Can't say community again. We've said that a million times. And I, and I'm part of something bigger. I am part of something that at least other people besides your family, Listen. Yes. Yeah. Which was actually, that was a big surprise to me that other people listened even though I see the numbers when I have some people say to me, Oh, I listened like people that aren't my friends. That I don't know. I'm flabbergasted. Yeah, so I thought it was just me listening on every app for a while. There are real people out there who really listen. So do tell us if you're listening. Generally. Oh, I could do the whole review rate review all of that jazz. No, but do tell us to get in contact with us. If you've liked any of our episodes, just generally like what we do. I'm gonna hand over to Rabea to give you her handles and then I'll give you mine even though you should know mine already. And then we'll sign off. Yeah, sounds good. So my podcast is more than work. So you can go to more than work pod.com And then I'm at more than work pod on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, and then at Robbie, a comedy on Tik Tok. But that's where I put mostly my podcasts because I don't really know how to make funny videos yet. So no, no, that's fair enough. You're doing it on stage in real life. There's a particularly good episode of more than work pod. So that's what we should have said when we said Which one would you start with? I mean, obviously, for creativity found I'd tell everybody to start with the Raby Hakuna episode. You're right. I was silly. I said start with well, just the narcissism, isn't it? Start with episode where I talk about myself. I should send even the dates to hear your episode. People you might if people want to hear a really good episode of my podcast, it's when I'm talking to Claire. Yeah. And if people want to listen to a really good episode of my podcast, it's when I'm talking to rob. Yeah. But now there's one. It's the other. Oh, yeah, the other one. And there's another one that we're going to put on as well, because I'm going to put your more than work one on and you're going to put my feed drop, so you won't have to go anywhere. Yeah, if you can't get enough of Rabea and Claire show. So thank you very much for listening. This has been an absolute joy. It's been lovely to be here at podcast show. It's been lovely to be in a puppet studio. Thank you very much to show for giving us the opportunity. And I'm now going to wave at technical man to come and do the technical things and turn everything off. Thank you as well Robbie, thank you. Thanks so much for listening to creativity found. If your podcast app has the facility, please leave a rating and review to help other people find us on Instagram and Facebook follow at creativity found podcast and on Pinterest looked for at creativity found. And finally, don't forget to check out creativity found.co.uk The website connecting adults who wants to find a creative outlet with the artists and crafters who can help them tap into their creativity.